Call to Arms - Charles Messenger

[Ken Lees]

I got my first copy from Amazon only for the delivery operative to leave it out in the rain in its cardboard packaging while he stuffed a note through the door to say he'd left it outside for me. Result - one soggy parcel.

E-mail to Amazon and the new, undamaged copy arrived today. Looks like some very happy reading hours ahead. Anyone know how to tell the Home Secretary that I'll tile the new bathroom next week (or the week after)?

Ken

[robbie]

Lucky you, Ken. I'm still awaiting Amazon's delivery of my order.

Robbie

[Peter Beckett]

Robbie,

with a bit of luck,I pick up my copy this morning

All the best for Flanders and dont let the side down (even if you are a Sydneysider)

Peter

[robbie]

Thanks Peter. Your turn next year.

Robbie

[charlesmessenger]

Received my copy on Monday. It looks very impressive. I have read a few bits and it certainly does not disappoint. I cannot remember the last time that I so eagerly anticipated reading a WW1 book.

How long did it take you to research and write, Charles?

Regards,

AGWR

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It took me 5 years off and on (other projects kept getting in the way). Do hope you enjoy it.

Charles M

[squirrel]

Charles,

my copy turned up yesterday - unputdownable, an excellent read.

Thanks for your hard work.

Squirrel

[AGWR]

It took me 5 years off and on (other projects kept getting in the way). Do hope you enjoy it.

Charles M

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I am already.

Regards,

AGWR

[Peter Beckett]

Charles,

my copy finally arrived today

Congratulations on a wealth of information in a very readable format.

So much now makes sense to me because it is all in one volume and the intricacies of the Derby Scheme is very well explained

Peter

[Patrick H]

Only cos I saw you were on line!! Thanks anyway cos im new to all this

Patrick

[Patrick H]

Only cos I saw you were on line!! Thanks anyway cos im new to all this

Patrick

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Ok youve persuaded me and ive bought the book as well! Need to start on another bookshelf. Ignore the post above it was meant to be a pm.

Patrick

[robbie]

Congratulations Charles for writing this book. Received mine when I got home tonight and have been glued to it (except for D-day) most of the night. I particulary like the structure, specifically each chapter covers one broad area e.g., "discipline, "medicine", "the regular army goes to war", conscription, officer selection etc, AND there is a whole chapter on Women in Khaki.

So much is covered in this book that I fear I may never ask another question, to the relief of many, no doubt.

Robbie

[Chris_Baker]

At last I have posted my review of the book at http://www.1914-1918.net/books/calltoarms.htm

[Ste]

My copy is here to, at last! Looks terrific, congratulations on such a mammoth achievement Charles,

Cheers,

Se

[Edward_N_Kelly]

Got mine last night and read into the wee small hours.....

Long overdue book in my opinion and something to be proud of Charles - I await more tomes of similar gravity from you.

[nit pick on]

Did find one curious thing though.

In the first chapter describing the pre-war British Army there is mention of the various ranks (and therefore standings) of the then personnel at the War Office - eg MGO, DMT etc – it goes from Lt General to "three star" to Brigadier. As far as I am aware there was no "three star" rank (and still isn't) in the British Army and the rank of the time was Brigadier General.

[nit pick off]

Anyhow - will be devouring more of it tonight!

Cheers

Edward

[charlesmessenger]

Edward

Many thanks for your kind comments, and that goes to all others who have recently posted on this thread. I am, however, a little puzzled by your 'nitpick'. I was using 'three star' in the modern NATO sense and it equates to a Lt Gen, Brig or Brig Gen being one star and a Field Marshal five star. I also cannot see where I have referred to the rank as Brigadier, as opposed to Brigadier General, in the book.

Perhaps worth pointing out, though, that 'Brigadier' was sometimes used in the vernacular during WW1 when referrring to a brigade commander. A classic example of this is Hanway R Cumming's A Brigadier in France (Cape, London, 1922), in which he constantly calls himself `the Brigadier'.

Charles M

[charlesmessenger]

Edward

Many thanks for your kind comments, and that goes to all others who have recently posted on this thread. I am, however, a little puzzled by your 'nitpick'. I was using 'three star' in the modern NATO sense and it equates to a Lt Gen, Brig or Brig Gen being one star and a Field Marshal five star. I also cannot see where I have referred to the rank as Brigadier, as opposed to Brigadier General, in the book.

Perhaps worth pointing out, though, that 'Brigadier' was sometimes used in the vernacular during WW1 when referrring to a brigade commander. A classic example of this is Hanway R Cumming's A Brigadier in France (Cape, London, 1922), in which he constantly calls himself `the Brigadier'.

Charles M

[Stebie9173]

I can see you just want to be a Super Member with all those extra posts!

Though it looks like you already are with those glowing reviews.

Off the shops I go. Now where did I put that jar of pennies....

Steve.

[dubliner]

Thanks Peter. It's going to be 13C here in Kent tomorrow!!

BTW: The Haig book arrived today. Rather a heavy tome, too. Maybe too heavy to pack for the trip unless one of the young men would like to assist me with my largest suitcase.

Robbie 

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Truly a great read

[Edward_N_Kelly]

Edward

Many thanks for your kind comments, and that goes to all others who have recently posted on this thread. I am, however, a little puzzled by your 'nitpick'. I was using 'three star' in the modern NATO sense and it equates to a Lt Gen, Brig or Brig Gen being one star and a Field Marshal five star. I also cannot see where I have referred to the rank as Brigadier, as opposed to Brigadier General, in the book.

Perhaps worth pointing out, though, that 'Brigadier' was sometimes used in the vernacular during WW1 when referrring to a brigade commander. A classic example of this is Hanway R Cumming's A Brigadier in France (Cape, London, 1922), in which he constantly calls himself `the Brigadier'. 

Charles M

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Charles

I decided to wait until I had finished the book (and it is a mighty tome), before answering.

I found the use of the "modern slang" term for the rank of MajGen annoying - more so in that all the other ranks are referred to correctly (my mistake - you did not shorten the rank to Brigadier - humbly beg forgiveness). I wonder why you used it ?

As to the rest of the book – superb, something that has been missing for far too long. It is the seminal work for aspects such as organisation, training, personnel administration, supply, etc.

It does show that the British Army had to adapt (and very quickly) from a “small, very cosy club” into something that was fighting a world war. It started off down some doubtful paths (particularly in regard to the organisation of its training and replacement streams) and it seems to have come together by the end of 1917 as a fairly streamlined organisation producing troops for the front (though still capable of sending the ill-trained straight to the front to cover losses in MAR18).

I wonder if something similar will be written/has been written for the other combatants of that sorry conflict ?

I have always wondered why “British amateurism” seems to have managed to beat the much vaunted “German professionalism” in this war (and in the “second innings”). This work shows that there was professionalism there as well as some inspired improvisation to meet the needs of the moment. There was also recognition that things were and had to change to suit “modern war”.

Now a question of you as the author. In a book covering such a large subject, I assume that there was some editorial pressure for you to suit the book to a particular size ? You seem to have only touched comparatively lightly on some areas particularly when these have been covered so well elsewhere. I noticed that areas that are a little undeveloped include logistics (as distinct from supplies) (Ian Brown is extremely good for that), armaments and their employment (many works cover different parts particularly Bidwell et al)

I still feel the area of technology and its development to the point of employment is something that needs to be looked at (eg development of sound ranging and flash spotting, metrology, etc) in a modern work.

Cheers

Edward

[charlesmessenger]

Edward

Many thanks for your additional very kind comments on the book. I used the expression ‘three star’ simply for stylistic reasons, but do now accept that it could be irritating to some readers and I apologise for it.

You are quite right to surmise that there was editorial control over the length. Indeed, I had to cut it down and decided to concentrate largely on the A side (as opposed to G and Q) since manpower was a constant problem and provided the Army with a continuing challenge over its efficient and effective use. I would have liked to have made the more all embracing and to have included more on such topics as transportation and weapons procurement (especially the friction between the MGO’s department and the Ministry of Munitions), but space did not permit me. The fact is that publishers are nervous about overly lengthy books and generally do not like publishing multi-volumes.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that technology is a vitally important subject and the way that the British Army took it on board is undoubtedly one of its triumphs. I did try to reflect this in the New Weapons, New Arms chapter, although the theme was more the rise of the specialist, in line with the overall thesis of the book. I did not, however, want to become embroiled in the operational side to any great extent since this would have created a work that was totally unwieldy. Suffice to say that I did stress that by autumn 1918 the Army had totally embraced the New Warfare, especially in its ability to handle the all arms battle, a skill which some historians argue was lost between the wars and that the 1940 debacle was the result.

In summary, I hope that above all else Call to Arms will encourage others to probe deeper since there is still much more to be unearthed, something which is reflected in many of the queries raised in the Forum.

Charles M

[Roy Evans]

I've just ordered my copy from Amazon (via the Forum link.)

Delivery on Friday.

Roy

[Edward_N_Kelly]

Edward

Many thanks for your additional very kind comments on the book. I used the expression ‘three star’ simply for stylistic reasons, but do now accept that it could be irritating to some readers and I apologise for it.

You are quite right to surmise that there was editorial control over the length. Indeed, I had to cut it down and decided to concentrate largely on the A side (as opposed to G and Q) since manpower was a constant problem and provided the Army with a continuing challenge over its efficient and effective use. I would have liked to have made the more all embracing and to have included more on such topics as transportation and weapons procurement (especially the friction between the MGO’s department and the Ministry of Munitions), but space did not permit me. The fact is that publishers are nervous about overly lengthy books and generally do not like publishing multi-volumes.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that technology is a vitally important subject and the way that the British Army took it on board is undoubtedly one of its triumphs. I did try to reflect this in the New Weapons, New Arms chapter, although the theme was more the rise of the specialist, in line with the overall thesis of the book. I did not, however, want to become embroiled in the operational side to any great extent since this would have created a work that was totally unwieldy. Suffice to say that I did stress that by autumn 1918 the Army had totally embraced the New Warfare, especially in its ability to handle the all arms battle, a skill which some historians argue was lost between the wars and that the 1940 debacle was the result.

In summary, I hope that above all else Call to Arms will encourage others to probe deeper since there is still much more to be unearthed, something which is reflected in many of the queries raised in the Forum.

Charles M

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G I think has been "done to death" - almost. There are many new books concerning operations on the Western Front, some cover the conduct of the operations and analyse the C2 equations. C3I on the whole has NOT been covered (yet) that I have read (though there have been "snippets" on aspects of I).

Q seems to have only had the one book so far (Brown's) that I have seen.

Working my way through Military Training in the British Army, 1940-1944: From Dunkirk to D-day by Timothy Harrison Place at the moment. An interesting follow on comparison (must look into "Raising Churchill's Army" as well at some stage.....)

Perhaps you might consider a defacto second volume based on the bits you had to leave out ?

By the way - the cover photo on the book. There is no explanation as to what/when/where/why - do you hav any details ? It is stragely fascinating.....

Cheers

Edward

[ypres1418]

just ordered mine and await its arrival.

the reviews look good and now to quote my daughter 'I can't wait' but of course I will have to.

Thanks Charles for taking the time to write it, and Chris for the link.

Mandy

[Ken Lees]

Perhaps you might consider a defacto second volume based on the bits you had to leave out ?

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Of the topics you had to leave out, Charles, had you prepared anything on demobilisation and discharge? That is something I know very little about and haven't come across any detailed work on it.

I would be very grateful if anyone could ppint me in the direction of any references to this topic as I have plenty of information in my database of the background to the recruiting of officers and men, even more on their service and almost nothing on the later period covering the causes and procedures for discharge and demobilisation.

Regards,

Ken

[charlesmessenger]

Edward

Alas, I know next to nothing about the picture used on the front jacket. It comes from Hulton-Getty and was selected by the designer who wanted to get across the idea that the Army was forced to scrape the very bottom of the manpower barrel. The soldiers could be Immatures from one of the Young Soldiers battalions formed in France in late 1918.

Ken

I used the Armistice as the cut off date right from the beginning and so have not done much research on demobilisation. This, however, would be covered in another projected book, a proposal for which I have just submitted to my publisher. I can't really tell you much else about it at this juncture. Suffice to say that I have come across very little in print which gives anything more than a very superficial overview of the subject.

Charles M