GWF1967 Posted 12 January , 2023 Share Posted 12 January , 2023 (edited) Apologies for the poor pictures, and again if it’s not on period. Could anyone help to Id this bayonet for a friend please. There are no obvious markings. Is it just a P1907 with a strange customisation? Edited 12 January , 2023 by GWF1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 12 January , 2023 Share Posted 12 January , 2023 Looks like a badly mis-treated P.1907... How long is it? Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 12 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2023 Just now, trajan said: Looks like a badly mis-treated P.1907... How long is it? Julian Thanks for your quick reply, I was just editing my post with the same thoughts. Hopefully I’ll have a measurement soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 12 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2023 6 minutes ago, trajan said: Looks like a badly mis-treated P.1907... How long is it? Julian 55.3cm. Spot on Sir; Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 12 January , 2023 Share Posted 12 January , 2023 My pleasure! Not certain what that screw is doing there in the mortice slot, but the presence of the cleaning hole in the pommel indicates this was around in 1916 or so when these things were introduced. It could be pre-1916 manufacture, of course, or 1916 or post 1916, no way of knowing... Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 12 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2023 1 minute ago, trajan said: My pleasure! Not certain what that screw is doing there in the mortice slot, but the presence of the cleaning hole in the pommel indicates this was around in 1916 or so when these things were introduced. It could be pre-1916 manufacture, of course, or 1916 or post 1916, no way of knowing... Julian Thanks again for narrowing the time span. The screw certainly doesn't appear to be a period field modification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 12 January , 2023 Share Posted 12 January , 2023 Looks like an 07, there may well be some markings under that rust and what looks like silver spray…interesting adaptation! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 12 January , 2023 Share Posted 12 January , 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dave66 said: Looks like an 07, there may well be some markings under that rust and what looks like silver spray…interesting adaptation! Dave It looks like it may be chromed (but badly tarnished/damaged) this was sometimes done officially for special parade purposes, I have a couple that have been treated this way. The screw is a new one to me -- and it certainly is not in any way official - one suggestion might be it was a way of attaching to the bayonet to a backing board or other display hanger (which might also go along with the chroming if unofficial) Chris Edited 12 January , 2023 by 4thGordons typos galore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 12 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2023 5 minutes ago, Dave66 said: Looks like an 07, there may well be some markings under that rust and what looks like silver spray…interesting adaptation! Dave 2 minutes ago, 4thGordons said: It looks like it may be chromed (but badly tarnished damaged) this was sometimes done officially for special parade, I have a couple that have been treated this way. The screw is a new one to me -- and it certainly is not in any way official - one suggestion might be it was a way of attaching to the bayonet to a backing board or other display (which might also go along with the chroming if unofficial) Chris Thanks for looking chaps, I suggested a clean with light oil and wire wool. I’ll let you know if any marks appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 12 January , 2023 Share Posted 12 January , 2023 Looks like the cleaning hole was realised post 1918, the blade should be cleaned, as it looks like silver paint on it, this piece is restorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.ryan Posted 12 January , 2023 Share Posted 12 January , 2023 It is a Pat 1907 bayonet which had been officially chromed to become an Australian Parade bayonet. Most of the chrome has now worn off but it would have looked like this one of mine with matching chromed scabbard. Cheers, TR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 12 January , 2023 Share Posted 12 January , 2023 56 minutes ago, t.ryan said: It is a Pat 1907 bayonet which had been officially chromed to become an Australian Parade bayonet. Most of the chrome has now worn off but it would have looked like this one of mine with matching chromed scabbard. Cheers, TR. How can you tell it (the original example) is Australian, please? I think several countries chromed bayonets for parade use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.ryan Posted 12 January , 2023 Share Posted 12 January , 2023 4thGordons, You are probably correct about other countries using chromed parade/ceremony 07 bayonets, as it was most likely a Commonwealth thing, I have only seen mention of our Aussie ones, and even those do not get mentioned much. As trajan states, no way of knowing much about this one until it is cleaned up a little. Mine is Aussie marked OA (Orange) 5/43. In JMBs post of the Smiling tiger bayonet, there is even one of those which has been chromed so I suppose we should always expect the unexpected with bayonets. Cheers, TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted 13 January , 2023 Share Posted 13 January , 2023 Cdn Army nickel plated their P07 bts. Orderly Sgt 1 Batt RCR wore a nickeled P07 until the late 1960s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1961 Posted 20 January , 2023 Share Posted 20 January , 2023 On a similar note, would anyone help me to identify this bayonet, I think i know what it is but I wouldn't recognise a fake if i'm honest. I have had it for about 40 years Overall length is 545mm and blade length is 425mm sorry, wouldn't load all pictures at the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 20 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2023 (edited) 40 minutes ago, DH1961 said: On a similar note, would anyone help me to identify this bayonet, I think i know what it is but I wouldn't recognise a fake if i'm honest. I have had it for about 40 years Overall length is 545mm and blade length is 425mm sorry, wouldn't load all pictures at the same time Very nice, I wish I had one hanging about. It looks to be a P1907 in rather better condition to the example I posted above. Australian made and marked. Dated 1914. https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/blog/australian-issued-rifles-and-bayonets-first-world-war Marked to the 16th Battalion Australian Infantry. Rack number 422 (to pair it with the correct Lee Enfield rifle). An unaltered early example by the looks of it. https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/U51456 Does it have any markings on the pommel or the throat of the scabbard? A clearer photograph of the scabbard markings should help others to identify the manufacturer @trajan, @Dave66, or one of our Australian pals should be able to add to/correct my offering. @Mattr82. Searching for “Lithgow” using the forum search facility should bring up several examples for comparison. Edited 20 January , 2023 by GWF1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1961 Posted 20 January , 2023 Share Posted 20 January , 2023 Thank you for your reply, the markings on the scabbard read Ca - - 13 on one side of the ridge and I think IMI over C the opposite side. I can't see any other markings at all on the pommel or scabbard Kind regards DH1961 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1961 Posted 20 January , 2023 Share Posted 20 January , 2023 15 minutes ago, GWF1967 said: Very nice, I wish I had one hanging about. It looks to be a P1907 in rather better condition to the example I posted above. Australian made and marked. Dated 1914. https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/blog/australian-issued-rifles-and-bayonets-first-world-war Marked to the 16th Battalion Australian Infantry. Rack number 422 (to pair it with the correct Lee Enfield rifle). An unaltered early example by the looks of it. https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/U51456 Does it have any markings on the pommel or the throat of the scabbard? A clearer photograph of the scabbard markings should help others to identify the manufacturer @trajan, @Dave66, or one of our Australian pals should be able to add to/correct my offering. @Mattr82. Searching for “Lithgow” using the forum search facility should bring up several examples for comparison. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 20 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2023 3 minutes ago, DH1961 said: Thank you for your reply, the markings on the scabbard read Ca - - 13 on one side of the ridge and I think IMI over C the opposite side. I can't see any other markings at all on the pommel or scabbard Kind regards DH1961 Glad to help - and welcome to the forum. A very desirable bayonet. Apart from the pommel missing its press stud, it looks to be in very good condition. I’m sure it will be coveted by many of the forum bayonet collectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1961 Posted 20 January , 2023 Share Posted 20 January , 2023 I have had it on the sideboard for years and do like the proportions and style, Im getting closer to retiring now and thought I might need a hobby to pursue. The bayonet seemed like a good starting point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattr82 Posted 20 January , 2023 Share Posted 20 January , 2023 That’s a fantastic bayonet mate! As stated before 16th Battalion, D Company. The 422 is the inventory number for that Battalion. I would be willing to say that these markings are specified for AIF use rather than to the military districts pre-WW1. The AWM also has a 16AI bayonet but marked to H Company. Fantastic bayonet. I have two 1914 Lithgow rifles myself but no 1914 Lithgow bayonet. Many thanks for sharing mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1961 Posted 20 January , 2023 Share Posted 20 January , 2023 You are welcome mate, thank you for responding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattr82 Posted 20 January , 2023 Share Posted 20 January , 2023 The 16th AI was raised at Broadmeadow in Victoria. It was a mainly Western Australian battalion but it and many others were raised in Broadmeadows as soldiers arrived for training. That’s why we see some 16 AI equipment either marked to Victoria or South Australia as well. Elements from those states handed equipment over to 16 AI to help flesh out equipment for mobilisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 January , 2023 Share Posted 20 January , 2023 2 hours ago, GWF1967 said: Glad to help - and welcome to the forum. A very desirable bayonet. Apart from the pommel missing its press stud, it looks to be in very good condition. I’m sure it will be coveted by many of the forum bayonet collectors. 2 hours ago, DH1961 said: I have had it on the sideboard for years and do like the proportions and style, Im getting closer to retiring now and thought I might need a hobby to pursue. The bayonet seemed like a good starting point A lovely specimen! Lucky bloke! But be careful of entering the bayonet collection world - it is fascinating, time consuming, and expensive - but great fun! And what a way to start a collection! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1961 Posted 20 January , 2023 Share Posted 20 January , 2023 It is fascinating, I am from England, so I have no idea how it ended up here as I have had it for ages. It was bought from an antique dealer I believe but ha passed a long time ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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