Where are his record's?

[AndrewSid]

Equally was Joseph William Wright living at the address in Patchett Street in the 1911 census? He would have been just 16 and therefore likely to be working but still at home.  For those that looked at the 1921 census can you check 1911. Apologies if I’m missed that reported yet.

mobilised  for service in 1914 does sound like a TF man or ex soldier. Likely the former given his age.  But of course the source of that information is what we are questioning.

[TEW]

I thought I recalled a previous topic with incorrect details in the National Roll.

It may have been this one which is way off. So who knows what Wright's story is.

TEW

 

[Allan1892]

14 hours ago, AndrewSid said:

Equally was Joseph William Wright living at the address in Patchett Street in the 1911 census? He would have been just 16 and therefore likely to be working but still at home.  For those that looked at the 1921 census can you check 1911.

Image courtesy of Find My Past shows the family living at 26 Robert St Ardwick Manchester in 1911

[RaySearching]

Then there is James Wright listed at the address on the above 1911 census who would have been aged 45 in 1914. doubtfull he served but not impossible if a pre war soldier

 

 

[peharris95]

5 hours ago, TEW said:

I thought I recalled a previous topic with incorrect details in the National Roll.

It may have been this one which is way off. So who knows what Wright's story is.

TEW

 

Lets assume this is not my man in the the national roll of honor, fact is my man's name is Joseph William Wright born 14 Jan 1895 in Manchester, I just spoke to his niece, she remembers his arm was amputated the rest of his body was full of shrapnel and he was in pain constantly, according to his brother he remembers he was away for virtually all the duration of the war or until discharged. In 1901 he and his family are at Temperance St, Ardwick, Manchester, 1911 Robert St, Ardwick, Manchester, sorry I can't supply any more helpful info but many thanks to all for your endeavors.

[corisande]

Thank you for clarifying the background to Joseph William Wright

• The only evidence we have to work on is the National Roll
• The National Roll records a "J Wright" living at 14 Patchett St, Hulme
• On the basis of what has emerged in this thread so far, I believe that this J Wright is John Robert Wright and not Joseph William Wright
• Without finding the correct MIC or Pension card it is not possible to be 100% sure, but the Patchett St address points to it being John Robert Wright

 

For John Robert Wright

• The 1921 Census shows the following living at 14 Patchett Street, Hulme
• John R Wright - 28 years - born Hulme - Occupation, Shop Clerk and Lodgeman
• Annie Wright - 30 years - born Kilkenny, Ireland
• Theresa Bickley - 7 years 9 months  - born Hulme
• Annie Wright - 11 months - born Hulme

 

• The 1939 Register shows living at 14 Patchett St , Hulme
• John R    Wright    17 May 1894    Male    Art Gallery Attendant    Married   
• Annie    Wright    24 Apr 1890    Female    Unpaid Domestic Duties    Married   

 

For Joseph W Wright

• 1901 census at Temperance St, Ardwick, Manchester
• 1911 census at  26 Robert St, Ardwick, Manchester,
• 1921 census at 63 Victoria Street, Tyldesley . He was working as a Forewarding Clerk
• 1939 Register at  63 Victoria Street, Tyldesley. He was working as a Warehouseman (Provisions)

[corisande]

 

My research into John Robert Wright never got me very far!. The only possible way into the maze that I can see , would be to get the marriage cert in 1918, which should say something of interest about John Robert Wright. Sometimes they will give Regiment and service no, on the other hand they can just say "soldier"

1894 May 17 born John Robert Wright son of John & Elizabeth Wright

1894 Jun 13 baptised

1918 Oct/Dec married Annie Bickley (she already had an illegitimate child Theresa who was born in 1914)

1920 Daughter Annie born Hulme (they seem to have had 5 daughters in total )

1921 census at 14 Patchett St , Hulme

1939 register at 14 Patchett St , Hulme

Edited 25 January , 2023 by corisande

[peharris95]

Good Evening all, I'm hoping finally I have Joseph William Wrights pension attachment @ 4 River St, Ardwick, Manchester, this address recognized by his living family, I took the regimental numbers into Ancestry medal cards and got the Boarder Regiment / East Lancashire Regiment, can anyone kindly decipher this medal card for me? .

Much appreciate any help,

Regards and thanks,

Peter.

[Gunner 87]

Hi Peter

This Medal Index Card records Joseph W Wright as serving in the Border Regiment as a Private number 20338 and then again in he Border Regiment with the same number. Looking at the corresponding Medal Roll it records Joseph was with the 1st and then the 6th Border Regiment which is why the ditto is below that entry. Joseph then served as a Private in the East Lancashire Regiment with number 29737 which the Medal Roll reveals was the 2nd Battalion. See attached from the Victory Medal and British War Medal Roll. 

The reference numbers next to the Victory Medal, British War Medal and 15 Star relate to the Medal Roll and page number which you will find at the top right hand corner of the respective Rolls. Interestingly the Medal Roll for the Star doesn't appear to be held by Ancestry. 

What looks like 'Rtd' next to the Star could mean this medal was returned but ready to stand corrected on that should one of our experts disagree. 

2B relates to a Theatre of War being ' Gallipoli and Aegean Islands' with the date, 10.9.15, recording when Joseph disembarked and qualified for the Star. 

This link will take you to the Long Long Trail which has a very useful article on Medal Index Cards https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/how-to-interpret-a-campaign-medal-index-card/

Hope that is of some use.

 

Edited 18 February , 2023 by Gunner 87

[peharris95]

Thank you Gunner 87, for your expertise and efforts on this subject, would be good to clarify if one medal was returned? and why it would be returned once issued?

Many thanks again,

Regards.

[TEW]

Yes, the Rtd. 1743 KR 1912 part means the medals were returned to the Medal Office.

Full text of KR 1743 here.

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/story/74498

Personally I don't accept the above stating they were possibly returned as 'unwanted' as that was not covered by a KR (King's Regulation). When you see a MIC with an annotation that the medals were returned as unwanted or not accepted there is no KR reference.

The medal office send the medals to his Infantry Records Office who in turn should send his medals to the address they have on record.

The medals have to be signed for by the recipient. In cases where the man has moved and not given an updated address the post office return the medals to the records office. They should make further enquiries to track the man down but eventually will return the medals to the medal office.

However, the records office may already know the address they have is obsolete in which case they simply hold onto the medals hoping the man puts in a claim. In the above scenario the medals are not sent out but are eventually returned to the medal office who make the annotation.

It's not unusual to see a later claim put in and the medals sent out at a later date, no evidence of that in this case.

TEW

[Stebie9173]

While I can't see a record for Joseph Wright there is one for a man transferred from 6th Border Regiment to 2nd East Lancashire Regiment with a very close new number (No. 29732 James Reid - mis-transcribed as Jmaes Reid on Ancestry). This would suggest a date of transfer between the Border Regiment and the East Lancashire Regiment of 31-10-1916.

 

Edit: The was also 29755 Edward Bradley transferred on the same date. Both had been wounded/ill about a month earlier. Bradley had been taken to hospital in France and ended up at No. 25 Infantry Base Depot at Etaples where he was transferred under A.C.I. (Army Council Instruction) 1499 of 1916.

 

 

Steve.

Edited 18 February , 2023 by Stebie9173

[peharris95]

Thanks again chaps, Just found a Silver War Badge entry for him, whilst they have his first name wrong, "John" instead of Joseph all other detail's match, ? William Wright /  Regiment / Regimental number / date of discharge / age at discharge.

Regards to all.

Peter.