Robert Nichol Bigley - 46th Battery RFA

[Aaron Cowen]

My Great Grandfather Robert Nichol Bigley served in WW1 in the Royal Field Artillery. His service records appear lost but I am told from the information on his medal card that he was in 83rd Battery RFA. I have attached the medal card here.

On the card date of entry is down as 9th Sept 1914. On the 1914 Star Roll record it states Date of Disembarkation 14th September 1914.

This is confusing me withe regards to how he would be in that Battery if they were serving in India. He would have likely joined somewhere around Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

The medal card also states that his wife had applied for his medals due to her late husband, which assumes he must have been believed dead. He was not however and had returned home by June 1921.

On 1917 Absent Voters list he was said to be in No. 2 Anti Aircraft Section RGA. And medal card suggests he was in 221st Siege Battery RGA from 1917 onwards.

There are quite a few questions here and I am trying to trace his service without his service records as best I can. Can anyone help?

Kind regards

Aaron

[RussT]

First off - everyone thinks that the numbers against the medals on a MIC refer to Artillery Batteries - but they are not. They are just Roll numbers - followed by page numbers.

Regards

Russ

PS: Welcome to the Forum 

[Aaron Cowen]

Hi Russ,

 

I have the rolls and those numbers do not reflect this The national archives explanation of this type of medal card seems to contradict what you say.

I have snippets here and there. Is there any way of trying to solve another way?

Regards

 

Aaron

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RussT]

I'm afraid you are mistaken but of course you are free to believe what you wish - it's a free world here.

There is a record dated Feb 1915 which states he was in 46 Battery (at least at that time)  - but given that contradicts what you believe, the record to which I refer is probably in error.

Regards

Russ

 

[Aaron Cowen]

Hi Russ, 

 

Can you point me in the direction of this record please? It is not a case of not believing. It is a case of trying to confirm info.

It was Royal Artillery Archives who told me this info. See below.

The only other avenue you could pursue is to find his Battery or Brigade War Diary, which may be available from the National Archives. I am attaching our Gunner Family History’ leaflet which will give you more information about downloading them. The award of Mons Star shows Battery number 83 Battery RFA and Victory medal 221 Battery, RGA.

[Aaron Cowen]

There is this info which suggests he didnt join RGA until 1917



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RussT]

5 minutes ago, Aaron Cowen said:

he only other avenue you could pursue is to find his Battery or Brigade War Diary, which may be available from the National Archives. I am attaching our Gunner Family History’ leaflet which will give you more information about downloading them. The award of Mons Star shows Battery number 83 Battery RFA and Victory medal 221 Battery, RGA.

I don't know who told you that but it is utter rubbish.

Russ

Just now, Aaron Cowen said:

There is this info which suggests he didnt join RGA until 1917

That is correct.

[Aaron Cowen]

Hi Russ can you please point me to the record you mentioned?

 

The only thing I know for certain is he was a Gunner in RFA and later RGA. He was stated as being in no. 2 Anti Aircraft Section. 

 

There is a german sword in the family said to have been picked up at Rouen.

 

My nana thinks he was on some big guns and they were hit throwing him and he was missing for a number of days. However she is 96 and not sure how correct that story is.

 

[Aaron Cowen]

This would explain why 83rd Battery doesn't make sense.

[Aaron Cowen]

It was an Archives Volunteer for the Royal Artillery Museum. I suppose a volunteer is not necessarily an expert. But I cannot find this record for 46th Battery. 

 

 

[Aaron Cowen]

I apologise Russ. Looking at the national archives I read their description wrong. It says that the medal rolls may give the units he was in.

 

So anything available on 46th Battery. Was that RFA or RGA?

 

 

 

 

[Aaron Cowen]

Yes. I looked at front of the medal rolls and you are quite right. That's rather annoying to receive the duff information from somewhere you would think would at least make sure they knew what they were talking about. So for 2 years I have been looking in the wrong place because of it. Oh well. You learn something new every day. Thanks for your correction.

 

[Michelle Young]

Perhaps you should edit the thread title now to 46 Battery? 

[Aaron Cowen]

Yes. But I don't know how ***

[Michelle Young]

It’s done by clicking the ellipsis top right of the post, and selecting edit, but I’ve changed it for you. 

[Aaron Cowen]

Thank you Michelle. Hopefully someone can tell me something about the 46th Battery RFA?

 

 

 

[AndrewSid]

Aaron,

There is a line of enquiry worth following around 46 Battery.  You have a date of arrival in France from the 14 roll,  If you can find which Brigade 46 Battery was a component part ( usually 3 batteries to a brigade) then its war diary will tell you its arrival date in France.  Circumstantial but useful information.

His arrival date so soon after the start of the war suggests he was a regular or mobilised ex serviceman.  

I couldn’t see him on any casualy list from Aug  1917 with HMSO, Prior to that is the Times archive which I’ve not looked at yet.

As has been said neither the medal rolls or medal index card provide any clues as to the nature of his unit in the RFA or RGA.

 

Andy

 

 

Edited 25 February , 2023 by AndrewSid

[ianjonesncl]

30 minutes ago, AndrewSid said:

if you can find which Brigade 46 Battery was a component part

I believe 46 Brigade RFA was part of the 39 (XXXIX) Brigade RFA.

The gun brigade was part of the 1st Divisional Artillery.

His date of entry into theatre is after the 1st Division deployed to France.

In July 1913 the brigade and constituent batteries were station in Bordon, Hampshire. (Source: Station of Units July 1913.)

Information on the 1st Division can be found on the Long Long Trail

1st Division - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

The war diaries of 39 Brigade RFA are available at the National Archives and downloadable (see banner ribbon above)

Divisional Troops: 39 Brigade Royal Field Artillery. (Described at item level) | The National Archives

Reference		Start Date	End Date
WO 95/1249	1 DIVISION.	01/08/1914	30/04/1919
WO 95/1249/1	1 DIVISION. Divisional Troops: 39 Brigade Royal Field Artillery	01/08/1914	31/12/1914
WO 95/1249/2	1 DIVISION. Divisional Troops: 39 Brigade Royal Field Artillery	01/01/1915	31/12/1915
WO 95/1249/3	1 DIVISION. Divisional Troops: 39 Brigade Royal Field Artillery	01/01/1916	31/12/1916
WO 95/1249/4	1 DIVISION. Divisional Troops: 39 Brigade Royal Field Artillery	01/01/1917	31/12/1917

 

 

Edited 25 February , 2023 by ianjonesncl

[Aaron Cowen]

I am struggling to find anything on 46th Battery. I can see 46th Brigade. Russ can you confirm for me is it 46th Battery or Brigade you have seen a record for?

 

 

 

[Aaron Cowen]

Got it. 46th Battery was in 39th Brigade.

[RussT]

Here is the record I found (on FindMyPast) for him as being in 46th Battery.

It's a sick & wounded list of the type that randomly pops up in a man's service record which invariably has nothing to do with that specific man himself. I had a look at the source record within which this page appears but I couldn't see any other relevant pages.

It reports he was admitted to a medical establishment (frustratingly not given) on 18/02/1915 suffering from ICT to the foot. ICT is the abbreviation for Inflammation Connective Tissue. If you search the Forum for this term you will find plenty of discussion about this condition.

As I noted earlier, the record states he was with 46th Battery at the time. It has evidently spelt his name incorrectly, which is not unusual for these types of record/lists.

I can't find any other records for him - the majority of men had no records at all - so it's rather fortunate to find at least one record irrespective of how scant it is.

46th Battery/39th Brigade RFA landed in France as part of 1st Division, BEF, between 09/08/1914 (completed personnel) and 16/08/1914 (completed equipment). From his MIC & 1914 MR it seems evident that he did not go with the original cohort but probably as a later reinforcement about a month later. It is an assumption that he served with 46th Battery from his first entry overseas up to his known wounding in February 1915. It's not unusual to see (slightly) different dates on a MIC and MR for a man's entry to a theatre of war although this apparently large gap between  09/09/1914 (on his MIC) and 14/09/1914 (on his 1914 MR) for someone going to France (presumably from the UK) is rather peculiar. The MICs were created from the Medal Rolls, so I would tend to believe the latter if having to decide. Given that he went to France so early in the War, together with his RFA number of 90609, indicates he was a pre-war Regular Soldier. Perhaps he arrived in France as a draft of men from somewhere else in the Empire on a journey that took some time between the two dates given - embarkation/disembarkation dates, which is the normal reason for different dates appearing on multiple records.

You have been provided with details of the 39th RFA Brigade's War Diary above so you can follow his movements and his unit's activities during his time with 39th Brigade. It's possible, but not definite, that he returned to this unit upon recovery from his wound.

You know he was transferred to the RGA on 13/12/1917 - I think it will be nigh on impossible to discover which RGA Battery/Brigade he joined. One avenue of research for that is to look for service records of other men with similar RGA service numbers to explore whether a block of men were transferred together from their previous RFA unit and from which you might be able to infer something for Bigley. If you look at his (RGA) BWM/VM Medal Roll, you will spot that men with similar RGA numbers were all ex RFA, so it's worth exploring,

As to his wounding, a further avenue of research is to search for records of men on the same Casualty list I have posted here. You might be lucky and find a record, from which you would then be able to confirm to which medical facility he was admitted.

Regards

Russ

 

 

[Aaron Cowen]

Thanks for this Russ. Very informative. From an absent voters list in 1917 I know he was in No. 2 Anti Aircraft Section so I assume on 13th Feb 1917 this is what he moved to.

 

 

Edited 25 February , 2023 by Aaron Cowen

[RussT]

9 minutes ago, Aaron Cowen said:

From an absent voters list in 1917 I know he was in No. 2 Anti Aircraft Section so I assume on 13th Feb 1917 this is what he moved to

It's an assumption yes, but I wouldn't necessarily rush to that. I've examined plenty of RGA records and they do tend to move around quite a bit and can end up in an AA Section toward the end.

[David26]

According to his MIC, Robert Bigley entered France on 9 September 1914.  I believe that 39 Bde RFA went to France in mid-August 1914 and Robert does not appear on the 1914 Star Medal Rolls for 39 Bde. 

So, it looks as if

- either he went to France with another unit and/or as a reinforcement on 9 September 1914 and at some time between then and when he was admitted to No.8 General Hospital, Boulogne on 18 January 1918 [i], he transferred to 46 Battery,

- or, the Casualty List has got his battery number wrong.  

[i] we know this because although Robert appears on page 2 of Casualty List 12221, we also have page 1 of this list (see the Casualty Lists thread where page 2 was posted onto p83 of that thread, while page 1 was posted onto p37. 

David.

Edited 25 February , 2023 by David26
Correcting typo

[RussT]

You have to be careful with RFA numbers as there were consecutive series overlapping as one series reached the end (99999) and a new one started at 1.

Nevertheless, you can find plenty of RFA men with 5 digit numbers beginning 906xx who were enlisting into the RFA at Newcastle under Special Reserve Terms of Engagement in late August/early September 1914, many of whom appear on the 1914 Star medal rolls. They were all ex service man, invariably ex RFA, who had served out their previous Terms of Engagement.

So on the face of it, it appears that Bigley likewise enlisted around this time at Newcastle. I would suggest he would also have had previous service given his early deployment to the BEF.

Russ