George Mitchell

[David Rowe]

I am currently writing an article based on an autograph album of a 15 year old girl who worked as a maid at Leeswood Hall Auxiliary Hospital in Flintshire, north Wales. The following entry is by G. Mitchell of the 20th Battalion of the Northumberland Fusiliers who was a patient at the hospital. Can anyone add any further information on G. Mitchell. The pencil sketch of 17th June, 1917 was inserted by G. Mitchell of the 20th Battalion of the Northumberland Fusiliers.

[Matlock1418]

15 minutes ago, David Rowe said:

I am currently writing an article based on an autograph album of a 15 year old girl who worked as a maid at Leeswood Hall Auxiliary Hospital in Flintshire, north Wales. The following entry is by G. Mitchell of the 20th Battalion of the Northumberland Fusiliers who was a patient at the hospital.

Welcome to GWF [at least I could get that back quickly!]

Unfortunately there seem to have been quite a few G / George MITCHELL in the Northumberland Fusiliers - as I feel sure you appreciate the trick will be finding the one [possibly more??] in the 20th Bn.

I'm suspecting you don't have any more details, e.g. a number or as to why he was there etc., but if you do please post.

M

[David Rowe]

Thank you M for your prompt response and as as you state I don't have any more detail on G. Mitchell. The auxiliary hospital was run by VAD nurses and local doctors and generally treated men who hadn't been seriously wounded but required  some nursing care. It is therefore certain that he had been wounded, possibly during one of the Battles of Scarpe. A picture of the patients and staff is attached. I posted the question on the Newcastle City Guides Facebook page and Peter Hastie provided the following information which mat be of use. Once again thank you for taking the trouble to respond.

Peter Hastie

David Rowe The only G. Mitchell I could find, who served in the 20th (1st Tyneside Scottish) Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers was 39569 George Mitchell. He served initially in the 20th Battalion and later in the 18th and 14th Battalions Northumberland Fusiliers. Discharged to the Army Reserve Class “Z” and from that in March 1920. Nothing to say where he came from.

Someone may be able to help if you put a post on here.

https://www.greatwarforum.org/

[Matlock1418]

21 minutes ago, David Rowe said:

David Rowe The only G. Mitchell I could find, who served in the 20th (1st Tyneside Scottish) Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers was 39569 George Mitchell. He served initially in the 20th Battalion and later in the 18th and 14th Battalions Northumberland Fusiliers. Discharged to the Army Reserve Class “Z” and from that in March 1920.

Would be interesting to know the primary source of this info - I might suspect the Bns may have come from a Medal Roll or possibly a Service Record [though the latter would commonly be expected to offer an address of some sort]. 

I checked the WFA/Fold3 pension records using this number for a possible disability pension claim and unfortunately for us [fortunately for him!] I didn't spot anything for him.

= ???

M

Edited 24 June , 2023 by Matlock1418
add

[brianmorris547]

I think the date 17/06/1917 must relate to the time in hospital. 20 NF were either in St Nicholas Camp or Railway Dugouts when not in the line between 07 and 20/06/1917. (WO 95/2462/4).

I noticed George Mitchell 39569 and wondered if he could be one of the 200 plus wounded in the Bn on 09/04/1917. I had a quick look in the Times and on the last day before the "void", when wounded were not published until the WOCLs, I saw under Wounded - Northumberland Fus - Michell (sic) 48347, G (Times 09/05/1917 p 5).

The rolls confirm that this is George Mitchell later Labour Corps 547129. The LC Rolls do not show which Bn of the NFs.

So we have a wounded G Mitchell of the NFs who is a good possible.

Brian

[David Rowe]

Brian/M

Thanks for information and it is a high probability that this our man. Also in the hospital with him was a Cpl. Packham (entry attached) of the Suffolk Regiment, does state that he was wounded at Scarpe around the same time. Possibly they were both in the same transport to Leeswood Hall.

[Matlock1418]

51 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said:

George Mitchell later Labour Corps 547129

Pension records at WFA/Fold3 for Acute Rheumatism and VDH [Valvular Disorder/Disease of Heart]

Transferred to Army Z Reserve 10.5.19 

Also showing the numbers 16807 and 31155 - 117501 [??]

22 Colton Rd Arnley/Armley and 44 Amberley Rd Leeds 

Born 1896 and Married with one child

8/3 pw 11/5/19 to 11/11/19 [20% disability rate] - finally ended up at 5/6 pw plus 1/4 pw for the child [would have been until 16y] to 10/5/21

M

Edited 24 June , 2023 by Matlock1418
strike and correct

[David Rowe]

Thank you for this additional information as it puts more flesh on the bones of an otherwise unknown solder. 

[brianmorris547]

The War Diary of 20 NFs names casualties, including those on 01/07/1916, up until April 1917. I could find no record of a wounded G Mitchell but he may have been evacuated through illness. 

Brian

[Matlock1418]

8 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said:

The War Diary of 20 NFs names casualties, including those on 01/07/1916, up until April 1917. I could find no record of a wounded G Mitchell but he may have been evacuated through illness. 

That could perhaps match with his pensionable disabilities ???

M

[brianmorris547]

For interest Cpl W Packham may possibly be 201563 Pte William Packham from Tunbridge Wells, who was k in a 31/07/1917 (initially reported missing) serving with 8 Sussex. There are plenty of reports about his death in the Kent and Sussex Courier including a photo of him in the edition 14/09/1917. None of the reports however mention an earlier wound.

7 Sussex were certainly in action on 28/04/1917.

Brian

EDIT:

Better possible is G/2045 William Packham Discharged para 392 19/11/1918 7 Royal Sussex. There is also a Albert William Packham G/254 7 Royal Sussex

Edited 24 June , 2023 by brianmorris547
additional info

[Matlock1418]

17 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

For interest Cpl W Packham may possibly be 201563 Pte William Packham from Tunbridge Wells, who was k in a 31/07/1917 (initially reported missing) serving with 8 Sussex. There are plenty of reports about his death in the Kent and Sussex Courier including a photo of him in the edition 14/09/1917. None of the reports however mention an earlier wound.

7 Sussex were certainly in action on 28/04/1917.

WFA/Fol3 pension records have him [William PACKHAM, 201563] as 4th Suffolk Regt. - potentially somewhere along the way I would presume - and 8th Bn. Suffolk Regt.

Edited 25 June , 2023 by Matlock1418
typo & clarify

[David Rowe]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

That could perhaps match with his pensionable disabilities ???

M

Thanks it is a real possibility.

[David Rowe]

25 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

WFA/Fol3 pension records have him as 4th Sulfok Regt. - potentially somewhere along the way I would presume - and 8th Bn.

His entry in the album shows him serving with the 7th Suffolk with the rank of Cpl., so is it likely he is the the one killed and  listed as private?

[Matlock1418]

51 minutes ago, David Rowe said:

His entry in the album shows him serving with the 7th Suffolk with the rank of Cpl., so is it likely he is the the one killed and  listed as private?

He might possibly have been 'busted' down - possibly due his time in hospital or another incident ?????

Or he was a LCpl 'bigging' himself up - though I would have thought rank chevrons/stripes would have given him away - LCpl appointments were listed as Privates  ???

M

Edited 24 June , 2023 by Matlock1418
add

[kenf48]

There is a fragment from the Record Office at Warley on FMP that includes Cpl 9372 W. Packham 7th Suffolk Regiment wounded while serving with the Expeditionary Force and admitted to Lord Derby War Hospital Warrington on the 3rd May 1917.

He was renumbered 308168 to the Tank Corps

[Matlock1418]

57 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

There is a fragment from the Record Office at Warley on FMP that includes Cpl 9372 W. Packham wounded while serving with the Expeditionary Force and admitted to Lord Derby War Hospital Warrington on the 3rd May 1917.

He was renumbered 308168 to the Tank Corps

Ultimately discharged 8/12/18 and claimed/awarded a disability [unspecified] pension of 9/9 pw from 9/12/18 to 9/12/19

88 Grove Rd, Stroud, Kent

MIC for 1914-15 Star [France 30.5.15] , BWM & VM also shows SWB listed. 

Edit: MIC gives Dis 17.12.18 - but I would go with the pensionable date in the absence of other source - Army pay and a pension was not liked by the Army, nor by the MoP!

M

Edited 24 June , 2023 by Matlock1418
edit

[Graham Stewart]

Hi All,

Having searhed through my NFDB of 108,000+ who served during WWI, it's quite possible that 48347 Pte George Mitchell could be your man based on the fact that these later numbers were in league with alphabetical surnames.

For instance;-

48340 - Pte Lane, Arthur - served with 20th Bn

48341 - Pte Moulder, Jim Albert - served with 20th Bn

48342 - Pte McDougall, William C. - served with 20th Bn

48343 - L/Cpl Maycock, John - Bn unknown to Labour Corps

48344 - Pte McDougall, Duncan - Bn unknown to Machine Gun Corps

48345 - Pte Miles, George Henry - served with 1st Bn

48346 - Pte McGregor, Alexander - served with 20th Bn

48347 - Pte Mitchell, George - Bn unknown to Labour Corps

48348 - Pte Mitchell, Cecil Howard - served with 22nd Bn

However one has to approach this with caution as without the relevant service documention, we can't be 100% certain this is correct.

Regards,

Graham.

[Peterhastie]

57 minutes ago, Graham Stewart said:

Hi All,

Having searhed through my NFDB of 108,000+ who served during WWI, it's quite possible that 48347 Pte George Mitchell could be your man based on the fact that these later numbers were in league with alphabetical surnames.

For instance;-

48340 - Pte Lane, Arthur - served with 20th Bn

48341 - Pte Moulder, Jim Albert - served with 20th Bn

48342 - Pte McDougall, William C. - served with 20th Bn

48343 - L/Cpl Maycock, John - Bn unknown to Labour Corps

48344 - Pte McDougall, Duncan - Bn unknown to Machine Gun Corps

48345 - Pte Miles, George Henry - served with 1st Bn

48346 - Pte McGregor, Alexander - served with 20th Bn

48347 - Pte Mitchell, George - Bn unknown to Labour Corps

48348 - Pte Mitchell, Cecil Howard - served with 22nd Bn

However one has to approach this with caution as without the relevant service documention, we can't be 100% certain this is correct.

Regards,

Graham.

Thank you Graham

The info I supplied was from the medal rolls and as I said, 39569 George Mitchell was the only one with documented service with the 20th. So, they're both contenders?

[David Rowe]

21 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

He might possibly have been 'busted' down - possibly due his time in hospital or another incident ?????

Or he was a LCpl 'bigging' himself up - though I would have thought rank chevrons/stripes would have given him away - LCpl appointments were listed as Privates  ???

M

 

6 hours ago, Peterhastie said:

Thank you Graham

The info I supplied was from the medal rolls and as I said, 39569 George Mitchell was the only one with documented service with the 20th. So, they're both contenders?

Thanks M it is a distinct possibly. Not sure whether they wore badges of rank on their hospital unit. Do you know?

 

[David Rowe]

21 hours ago, kenf48 said:

There is a fragment from the Record Office at Warley on FMP that includes Cpl 9372 W. Packham 7th Suffolk Regiment wounded while serving with the Expeditionary Force and admitted to Lord Derby War Hospital Warrington on the 3rd May 1917.

He was renumbered 308168 to the Tank Corps

As Warrington is not too far from Flintshire, he could have been transferred to Leeswood to recuperate. 

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, David Rowe said:

Not sure whether they wore badges of rank on their hospital unit.

I believe they did - though a lot of photos I can recall don't seem to show them.

This YouTube video by Great War Huts refers to them and show them on the right arm [for NCOs] - near the end if you haven't time to watch it all [c.7-10 mins - though I think the whole is worth it] .

 M

Edit: Hooray, after all I have found a seemingly contemporary photo with ranks chevrons at this link https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kingsownmuseum.com%2Fphotogallery%2Fko2159-11.jpg&tbnid=AbwW9xFtYAZnIM&vet=10CIEBEDMoiAJqFwoTCLiNrfqT3_8CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAF..i&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kingsownmuseum.com%2Fko2159.htm&docid=linKHYeawvAYXM&w=460&h=304&q="hospital blues" ww1&ved=0CIEBEDMoiAJqFwoTCLiNrfqT3_8CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAF - on right arm as was mentioned in the video

and another https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.marlboroughhistorysociety.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F02%2F50.jpg&tbnid=7jDr98bqQN2C8M&vet=10CFcQMyiEBWoXChMIuI2t-pPf_wIVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBY..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.marlboroughhistorysociety.co.uk%2Fcollections%2Fworld-war-i-photographs-part-2%2F&docid=K-pND6N2WiieuM&w=1000&h=651&q="hospital blues" ww1&ved=0CFcQMyiEBWoXChMIuI2t-pPf_wIVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBY

and https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi2.wp.com%2Fwww.saintjohnslodge21.ca%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F11%2FCorporal_Donald_McLean-First_World_War-2-SaintJohnsLodge21-1662x2590-1-scaled.jpg%3Fresize%3D648%2C1010&tbnid=SWpdMIi1ep_ncM&vet=10CMEBEDMoigNqFwoTCLiNrfqT3_8CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAG..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.saintjohnslodge21.ca%2Fladysmith-masonic-history%2Fbrother-donald-mclean-one-of-our-veterans%2F&docid=HDeQK9RMLJN1wM&w=648&h=1010&q="hospital blues" ww1&ved=0CMEBEDMoigNqFwoTCLiNrfqT3_8CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAG [though Canadians, let's not hold that against them] ... Enough photos for now I think. 

That said I have not found a LCpl [then again LCpl was a regimental appointment granted by a Bn CO, rather than a true NCO rank, so perhaps they lost their single stripe if in a hospital ??]

Edited 25 June , 2023 by Matlock1418
Edit

[kenf48]

2 hours ago, David Rowe said:

As Warrington is not too far from Flintshire, he could have been transferred to Leeswood to recuperate. 

Quite possible.  
 

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

That said I have not found a LCpl [then again LCpl was a regimental appointment granted by a Bn CO, rather than a true NCO rank, so perhaps they lost their single stripe if in a hospital ??]

They did, similarly if they were ‘acting unpaid’ but substantive rank, as you have observed was retained whilst convalescing.

[Matlock1418]

12 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

They did, similarly if they were ‘acting unpaid’ but substantive rank, as you have observed was retained whilst convalescing.

Thanks for the confirmation - every day a school day - and saves me looking any more for a single stripe!

[Actually I had stopped looking as I had already recognised the probable situation - but glad of your post]

M

[David Rowe]

11 hours ago, kenf48 said:

Quite possible.  
 

They did, similarly if they were ‘acting unpaid’ but substantive rank, as you have observed was retained whilst convalescing.

Thank you gentleman for the answers. My question regarding rank was the result of looking at a series of photographs and not seeing any. However, I found a photograph of two patients in the nearby village, one of whom clearly has the three stripes of a sergeant.