US Soldiers in Germany?

[Shayne]

Thanks!  I am trying to obtain my Ggrandfather's full military records from somewhere (only have his 4 discharge papers) so maybe when I locate a site for that they will also have The Stars & Stripes archives.

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, Shayne said:

Thanks!  I am trying to obtain my Ggrandfather's full military records from somewhere (only have his 4 discharge papers) so maybe when I locate a site for that they will also have The Stars & Stripes archives.

The US was far ahead of most other countries with the digitisation of old media and records.  I’ll be surprised if there are not excellent archives for the Stars and Stripes, which became known widely by the allies during WW2 especially, but of course existed since long before that.

Edited 25 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[charlie962]

On 24/08/2023 at 11:48, PRC said:

have two overseas service chevrons on their left cuffs, so 12 months service overseas

Peter

Did the Americans stop wearing these chevrons in say 1922 (that was the date the British Army stopped, I think)? 

Charlie

[PRC]

6 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Did the Americans stop wearing these chevrons in say 1922 (that was the date the British Army stopped, I think)? 

I'm afraid I 'm at the edge of my armchair knowledge. However scrabbling around the internet I found a forum thread “World War I War Service Chevrons” on the U.S. Militaria Forum which is incredibly detailed and well illustrated, and may be of interest to @FROGSMILE if he is not already aware of it.

I've extracted what I hope are the key points that address your question.

A cutoff date for War Service Chevrons was established for the AEF when War Department General Orders No. 123 of 1919, decreed that no time after October 4, 1919, would count towards a gold or light blue service chevron, except for the men serving in Siberia and for the troops serving in the Army of Occupation.

While the pacification of Germany was progressing, the transfer of AEF troops from France to America moved forward at a rapid pace. As of May of 1919, every American combat division, except for the five divisions: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th that made up the Army of Occupation, had either already sailed or had received orders for their embarkation to the United States. With the dissolution of the 3rd Army on July 2, 1919, any organizations that remained with that organization were repatriated to America as rapidly as possible. By August of 1919, the 1st Infantry Division was the last of the five divisions to depart for home.

The 6,800 man force that stayed remained in Germany was christened the American Forces in Germany (AFG) on July 12, 1919. The AFG tenure on the Rhine River would last for another three and a half years. The American occupation of Germany officially ended on January 24, 1923, when the American zone was turned over to the French three days after that date.

The clock that measured the amount of time an officer or enlisted man spent either in the AEFs Theater of Operations or as a member of the Army of Occupation in Germany continued to tick away until (I think) the AFG was disbanded late in January of 1923. If the impossible happened, and a soldier happened to be in the Theater of Operations when America entered the war on April 2, 1917 and he served continuously with the AEF until the Armistice, and then with the Army of Occupation until it became the American Forces in Germany, and he then stayed with the AFG until it departed from Germany on January 24, 1923, he would have served for 70 consecutive months and been eligible to wear a staggering eleven gold War Service Chevrons!

A later post notes “AEF personnel who had served in either the French or British Armies prior to America’s entry into the war were allowed to wear whatever service or wound chevrons/stripes they had been awarded on their AEF service dress.” So can get quite confusing.

The chevrons continued to be worn by those entitled to them and still serving. (One of the pictures is of veterans serving in the Korean War with a mix of Great War, Peacetime and WW2 service chevrons, in one case almost from the cuff to the shoulder.

In terms of trying to date some of the pictures the post also has a long piece on the high command trying to standardise all units insignia worn on the sleeve to just reflect that the occupying forces in Germany were 3rd Army – and the various attempts by the units to get round this.

Cloth backings also came in for the collar badges -  The color of the cloth behind the regulation insignia always seems to match that of the wearer’s arm of service, i.e. red for artillery, blue for infantry, yellow for cavalry, and so on. In the case of branch colors composed of two different colors, a disc of each color, one slightly larger than the other is worn behind the respective badge or insignia. https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/202900-world-war-i-war-service-chevrons/

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 25 August , 2023 by PRC
Typos

[charlie962]

Peter, Thanks.In short there was no actual termination of chevron wearing that would put an end date on photos, unlike for the British Army. You do not suprise me. 

Charlie

[FROGSMILE]

8 hours ago, PRC said:

I'm afraid I 'm at the edge of my armchair knowledge. However scrabbling around the internet I found a forum thread “World War I War Service Chevrons” on the U.S. Militaria Forum which is incredibly detailed and well illustrated, and may be of interest to @FROGSMILE if he is not already aware of it.

I've extracted what I hope are the key points that address your question.

A cutoff date for War Service Chevrons was established for the AEF when War Department General Orders No. 123 of 1919, decreed that no time after October 4, 1919, would count towards a gold or light blue service chevron, except for the men serving in Siberia and for the troops serving in the Army of Occupation.

While the pacification of Germany was progressing, the transfer of AEF troops from France to America moved forward at a rapid pace. As of May of 1919, every American combat division, except for the five divisions: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th that made up the Army of Occupation, had either already sailed or had received orders for their embarkation to the United States. With the dissolution of the 3rd Army on July 2, 1919, any organizations that remained with that organization were repatriated to America as rapidly as possible. By August of 1919, the 1st Infantry Division was the last of the five divisions to depart for home.

The 6,800 man force that stayed remained in Germany was christened the American Forces in Germany (AFG) on July 12, 1919. The AFG tenure on the Rhine River would last for another three and a half years. The American occupation of Germany officially ended on January 24, 1923, when the American zone was turned over to the French three days after that date.

The clock that measured the amount of time an officer or enlisted man spent either in the AEFs Theater of Operations or as a member of the Army of Occupation in Germany continued to tick away until (I think) the AFG was disbanded late in January of 1923. If the impossible happened, and a soldier happened to be in the Theater of Operations when America entered the war on April 2, 1917 and he served continuously with the AEF until the Armistice, and then with the Army of Occupation until it became the American Forces in Germany, and he then stayed with the AFG until it departed from Germany on January 24, 1923, he would have served for 70 consecutive months and been eligible to wear a staggering eleven gold War Service Chevrons!

A later post notes “AEF personnel who had served in either the French or British Armies prior to America’s entry into the war were allowed to wear whatever service or wound chevrons/stripes they had been awarded on their AEF service dress.” So can get quite confusing.

The chevrons continued to be worn by those entitled to them and still serving. (One of the pictures is of veterans serving in the Korean War with a mix of Great War, Peacetime and WW2 service chevrons, in one case almost from the cuff to the shoulder.

In terms of trying to date some of the pictures the post also has a long piece on the high command trying to standardise all units insignia worn on the sleeve to just reflect that the occupying forces in Germany were 3rd Army – and the various attempts by the units to get round this.

Cloth backings also came in for the collar badges -  The color of the cloth behind the regulation insignia always seems to match that of the wearer’s arm of service, i.e. red for artillery, blue for infantry, yellow for cavalry, and so on. In the case of branch colors composed of two different colors, a disc of each color, one slightly larger than the other is worn behind the respective badge or insignia. https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/202900-world-war-i-war-service-chevrons/

Cheers,
Peter

An interesting post Peter.  Thank you, yes, I’m aware of the US Militaria Forum and dip into it from time-to-time, but not regularly.

[GreyC]

6 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

An interesting post Peter.

I agree, thanks for sharing the information.

GreyC