Photo Album - 1/4th Gloucestershire, Scottish Regiments. France, Italy, England.

[gunnerwalker]

Hello all

Here begins a perhaps lengthy initial post which I hope will be of interest to many forum members. I may have to serialise my uploads as together they will exceed the upload capacity.

I recently purchased thirty photographs from a personal album all taken during the war, which I will post in order with all the relevant information I have gathered. The photos are small - roughly 7x4cm or about the size of a cigarette card. Many have a small note penciled on the back mentioning the location and year, and some are named where people have been photographed. As all photos were sold individually there were four photos I unfortunately missed out on, but I will mention them where relevant.

The seller described the collection as "from an album of small WW1 photos covering 1917 to 1918. Mostly officers of various regiments at Rouen and Bourges 1917, Italy 1917 and Ripon, Yorkshire, 1918 training. Album possibly belonged to an Argyle & Sutherland Highlander 2/Lt". The photographs actually cover 1916 to 1918 and many of the places don't exactly match up their captions. With the dated captions I've been able to group them into sets covering four time periods - Spring to Winter 1916, Rouen 1917, Italy 1917 and Yorkshire 1918 - and the photo paper seems to differ for nearly all to support this separation. 

I've done what research I can with the information available and collected some interesting details - mostly for photos featuring officers of the 1/4th (City of Bristol) Battalion, Gloucestershire Regiment which were of particular interest to me. All the research has been done without the aid of an Ancestry or Find My Past account, so any biographical information has been found sporadically from various sources. My main sources used for matching up places and dates have been the Battalion War Diary (which is digitised by the National Archives for the period covering 1915-1917) and 'The Gloucestershire Regiment in the War' by Everard Wyrall, originally published in 1931, which details excellently the actions of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 1/4th, 1/5th and 1/6th Battalions of the regiment.

I hope this all makes for an interesting read. If any members have additional information they would like to offer that would be extremely welcome and appreciated, as there are gaps in my knowledge for many of the photos, such as identifying the uniforms of the Scottish Regiments.

[gunnerwalker]

SPRING - WINTER 1916

1. - 'France 1916'. I'm not sure about identifying the regiment, but clearly a Scottish officer by the trews and cutaway jacket.

 

2. An officer of the Gloucestershire Regiment posing in the ruins of a factory. Perhaps the same man as in photo 14?

 

3. - 'Lt. Andrews, left, Lt. Welsby, right'. 

Lt. Andrews I have been unable to confirm with certainty, though I strongly suspect my two candidates are the same person. 

The first is Frederick Dudley Andrews, MC. Of the 1/4th Battalion, he achieved the rank of Captain before he was killed in action on the 14th August 1917. Son of Thomas and Edith of Lichfield, Staffordshire. He was the husband of Gladys of Shustoke, Warwickshire. Buried at Track X Cemetary, St. Jean-les-Ypres. The awarding of his Military Cross was published in the London Gazette on 1st January 1917 (page 30 - https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29886/supplement/44). His portrait is available on Lives of the First World War but it's not easy to match to this photo - https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/59019. 

The other consideration is Captain E. L. Andrews. I saw the name mentioned in Wyrall's 'The Gloucestershire Regiment' as being among the 1/4th casualties for August 1917, page 226. The details seem to line up but the name is different.

The most likely match for Lt. Welsby I've been able to find is Cecil M. Welsby, who was initially a private in the Gloucestershire Yeomanry, regimental number 2182. He went with them to Egypt in 1915 but at some point was commissioned a 2/Lieutenant and joined the 1/4th Gloucestershire, later reaching the rank of Captain.

Edited 16 October , 2023 by gunnerwalker
Re-formatted the layout for easier reading

[gunnerwalker]

4. - 'Lt. Stone, left, E.M. Matthews, right, killed in action 10/11/16'.

 

5. - 'Stone, left, Matthews, right'. A much clearer photo showing the same men as in photo 4. 

I've found two Lieutenant Stones for the 1/4th Gloucestershire Regiment. The first looked to be R. E. Stone, mentioned in the Battalion War Diary as being of D Company, though it's handwritten and not easy to decipher. I can't find any medal card matching this name. 

The second and most likely is Frederick J. Stone, previously 2317 Lance Corporal. His date of entry on 31st March 1915 matches the day 1/4th Gloucesters arrived in France.

The other officer is Lieutenant Edwin Martin Matthews. He was born in Islington in 1879, the third of four children to Edwin and Caroline Matthews. Before the war he was employed as a tea agent, presumably at the nearby Avonmouth Docks. He lived in Portbury outside Bristol with his wife Emily and their three children. A Territorial officer, he arrived in France on 17th August 1916. The date of his death is incorrect on the back of the photo, as he was actually killed in action on 8th November 1916 while the battalion held trenches just north of Le Sars, aged 37. His death is mentioned in the Battalion War Diary, implying he was killed by artillery, and he is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial.

One of the photos I did not manage to acquire is taken in the same doorway and shows Stone and Matthews stood beside Captain E. E. Wookey, who was officer commanding C Company, 1/4th Gloucesters. He appears to be wearing an MC ribbon. Later promoted Major, Captain Wookey was wounded on the 8th November 1916 in the same artillery barrage which killed Lieutenant Matthews. Command of C Company passed to Captain F. C. Davis.

Edited 16 October , 2023 by gunnerwalker
Re-formatted the layout for easier reading

[gunnerwalker]

6. - 'P. H. Phippen, left, killed in action 10/11/16, W. R. Burns, right'.

The initials for Lieutenant Phippen appear to be incorrect. The man is 2/Lt. Henry George Phippen, born in November 1891. I've seen two sources give different names for his parents - Albert/Alfred Henry Phippen and Ava/Ada Ward (deceased). The family lived in Easton-in-Gordano, outside Bristol. Henry attended Blundells School in Tiverton, Devon, 'Old House' from 1904 to 1910. By the time of the war he was back living in Easton-in-Gordano. 

Henry arrived in France on 31st March 1915 with the initial draft of 1/4th Gloucesters. Wyrall mentions him being wounded on 10th June 1915 while the battalion held trenches opposite Messines - one of four officer casualties the 1/4th sustained between April and October 1915. Throughout the time of the Somme offences, the battalion were in reserve south of Sailly-au-Bois on 1st July 1916, moving forward to Mailly-Maillet at 8am. They saw further action at Ovillers (15th July), Poziers (22nd-24th July), Beauval (29th July) and Puchvilliers (10th August).

In Wyrall, across pages 170-172 there is a fabulous diary entry fleshed out from notes Captain Wookey made throughout the day when the 1/4th Gloucesters attacked the Leipzig Redoubt on 21st August 1916. Much of it is written as it was happening. He describes the preparations throughout the day before the attack in the early evening. At the moment of the assault he writes, "At 5.30pm we are in position and we make an issue of rum to the company, bid farewell to Trestrail and depart for the front line. At 5.50pm Trapnell and Phippen lead the first two platoons, 7 and 8, over the parapet. A German machine gun opens up to our right, but as far as I can see no casualties."
By 3rd October, the battalion was in trenches opposite Gommecourt. On 20th they moved to Warlincourt and back to Albert on the 31st. November saw them at Bazentine-le-Petit on 2nd November, Martinpuich on the 5th, Le Sars on the 7th. Here the battalion took positions previously held by the 1/6th Glosters where, during a heavy barrage on the evening of the 8th, Phippen was again wounded. The battalion withdrew from the front line the next day to camp at Contalmaison, where Phippen died of his wounds on the 10th. He is buried in grave I.Y.4 at Becourt Military Cemetary.  

The battalion war diary provides an overview for their brief spell in the front line in early November:
⦁    LE SARS AND MARTINPUICH - 7/11/16
    The Battalion relieved the 6th Battalion Glouc Regt in trenches at LE SARS. Commencing relief at dusk. Guide met companies at point where white [illegible] track crosses MARTINPUICH--EAUCOURT L'ABBAYE Rd. Relief complete 8.30pm. Dispositions; A+B Coys in front line from M16D77 to M16A58, D Coy SUNKEN Rd LE SARS, C Coy in trench OG2. B.H.Q in OG2. C Coy carried rations for A+B Coys from railheads S.W. of MARTINPUICH. Raining the whole time + conditions for men very bad. Enemy quiet during the night.
⦁    LE SARS - 8/11/16
    Dispositions unchanged. Enemy artillery very active during the day. At 5pm enemy commenced a very heavy bombardment on all of our positions continuing until 7pm. Casualties very slight. LIEUT. E.M. MATTHEWS killed, CAPT. E. WOOKEY and LIEUT. PHIPPEN wounded. During the night situation normal. Trenches in a very bad condition.
⦁    LE SARS - 9/11/16
    Dispositions unchanged. Enemy artillery fairly active. Order received for relief. Weather very much improved. Battalion relieved by the 5th Batt. Warwick Regt. Battalion [illegible] back to NORTH CAMP, PEAKE WOOD, CONTALMAISON. LIEUT. CLARK killed + LIEUT LANGLAND wounded during relief.
⦁    CONTALMAISON - 10/11/16
    In camp. Men spend the day in drying + cleaning. Weather good. LIEUT PHIPPEN died of wounds.

The officer on the right is Lieutenant Walter Bell Burns. He was born in Argentina to Alexander and Herminia Burns and educated at University College School, London. Walter was living in Argentina in 1914 at the outbreak of war but returned to Great Britain to enlist. He was commissioned in the 3rd Battalion King's Shropshire Light Infantry, and still looks to be wearing KSLI collar badges in the photo, though he seems to have spent most of the time he served in France attached to the 1/4th Glosters, arriving on 27th June 1916. He died on 9th October 1917, presumably during the Battle of Poelcapelle, and is commemorated on the Tyne Cot Memorial.

Edited 30 December , 2023 by gunnerwalker

[gunnerwalker]

7. - 'Capt Cassell'.

This one stumped me for a while until I came across a Captain Castle in Wyrall. He is Gilbert Stacey Castle, seen wearing his MC ribbon though I have not found information on when he was awarded his MC. Born on the 4th April 1893 in Bristol, he was the second of five children. 

I found an interesting blog post in which a genealogist had come across a postcard showing the grandchildren of the Castle family in the late 1930s. Among them is Gilbert's 10 month old son. The post gives a lot of information about the Castle family, especially Gilbert's father Richard, who was a prominent businessman in Bristol and respected in many social circles. His obituary highlights this, name-dropping W. G. Grace as among his friends. https://lynnswaffles.com/2019/12/05/the-grandchildren-of-richard-nellie-castle-1937/.

Gilbert's date of entry to France shows as 31st March 1915. 

On page 157 of Wyrall he is named as the officer commanding D Company, 1/4th Gloucesters, during the capture of Ovillers on the 16th July 1916. The 1/4th Gloucesters went into the front line on the evening of the 15th, along with the 7th Worcesters on their right flank. At 4pm on the 16th they received orders to assault the German front line trench, and D and B Companies were to make the attack despite D Company having been in reserve the night before. D Company assembled in a trench 150 yards forward of the front line at 10pm, after darkness had fallen. Each man carried four No.5 grenades and four sand bags - although one man in each platoon carried twelve grenades. Additionally, one hundred shovels and nearly as many picks were carried, and an accompaniment of Lewis Gunners. They waited until 11.30pm while a 2/Lieutenant C. F. Holland and six NCOs and men completed a reconnoitre of the German wire. The patrol was fired on several times, concluding that the positions was strongly held, but the wire wouldn't give them difficulties. 

The attack began at 2am, following a 10 minute bombardment, with B Company on the right and D on the left. The first report back at 2.30am came when a wounded man of D Company reported that they had taken the German trench. Wyrall says that shortly after this a written message from Captain Castle came in stating that "all is well" and a message from B Company reported they had made contact with the 7th Worcesters on their right - but this was a misunderstanding and turned out not to be the case. Following this, several more wounded men came in from D Company and their reports were consistent with what had been relayed thus far. Wyrall then writes, "At 5.25am, Captain Castle sent back another message by a runner who had to pick his way carefully across No-Man's Land, which by this time was under very heavy shell-fire, stating that the two companies were not yet in touch with the Worcesters and that he was being heavily bombed by the enemy on both flanks." The heavy fire made it extremely difficult for them to either advance or withdraw. C Company, 1/4th, were ordered up to commence bombing attacks on the German trench to relive pressure on the attacking companies and allow B Company to re-establish communication with those on their flanks. C Company was commanded here by a Lieutenant Fisher, as a diary entry from Captain Wookey confirms he was not present during this attack and was behind the lines recovering from illness - https://www.soldiersofglos.com/announcement/the-gloucesters-on-the-somme/.

C Company's support was successful, although full communication was not established properly until noon on the 17th, by which time each company is reported to have suffered around 80 casualties but were still well-supplied with ammunition and were said to be utilising a cache of German grenades they found. At 3pm, C Company relieved B Company and occupied the positions taken. By 7pm, A Company relieved D Company. The attack resumed on the 18th until the 1/4th were relieved by the 1/6th on the 20th and the 1/4th went into support trenches. Through the attacks of 16th-20th July, 1/4th Gloucesters lost 37 men killed, 211 wounded and 27 missing.

Gilbert Castle later transferred to the 20th Hampshires - by 11th November 1916, Capt. C. E. W. Lavender is shown to have been in command of D Company. 

He survived the war, rising to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. He returned to Bristol and had a son, born in 1936. He died in Bristol in July 1981, and an obituary for Gilbert appeared in the Daily Telegraph on 18th July 1981, page 28 - though I haven't been able to read it.

When researching Gilbert, I found a very interesting photograph on British Army Ancestors in which Gilbert is shown among a group of officers from various regiments at the Fourth Army School at Flixécourt - https://www.britisharmyancestors.co.uk/blog/siegfried-sassoon-did-your-british-army-ancestor-serve-with-him/. The photo dates from May 1916, and seated in the front row is one of Gilbert's classmates, Siegfried Sassoon. In another post, owner Paul Nixon reveals that the photo was owned by Gilbert and he named all the officers in the photo on the rear - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/british-army-ancestors-hits-100k-photograph-milestone-paul-nixon/. 
 

 

8. - 'Huts at Con'. I believe 'Con' is Contalmaison, where the battalion billeted after coming out of the line in early November 1916 - around the time when Captain Wookey was wounded and Lieutenants Matthews and Phippen were killed. The man in the centre appears to be Lieutenant Stone.

 

9. - '2/Lt Lowe, left, 2/Lt Stone, right, in our hut at Con'. 

2/Lieutenant Lowe appears to be Harlowe Robert Lowe, later Captain, who was awarded the Military Cross. Wyrall has a note for a Capt. R. Lowe being awarded the MC in November 1918 while the 1/4th Battalion was in Italy.

It appears that this was also taken in November 1916, as their surroundings show a pair of gloves on the bench in the foreground, many coats and scarves hanging on the wall behind them, and clothing drying on a line suspended from the ceiling. This was perhaps taken within a few days following their rotation out of the front line on 10th November. This is probably my favourite out of the lot.

Edited 16 October , 2023 by gunnerwalker
Re-formatted the layout for easier reading

[gunnerwalker]

10. - 'J.Y.B. France 1917'. He is the only person mentioned by initials rather than by name, so perhaps he is the owner of the photo album? I'm not sure if he wears the uniform of the Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders though. I can't quite tell if he is the same person as in pictures 1, 11, 17, 19 and 23, or if he is one of two men who look very alike. A photo I didn't win perhaps also shows this man wearing a steel helmet in a training trench. It's not clear, but some facial features seem to match and he wears a cutaway jacket. 

Though the caption says 1917, I've included it here as the hut seems to be alike the ones in the previous two photos and his gloved hands suggest cold weather, so likely to be the winter of 1916/17. The photo paper also matches all of those for the 1916 photos. Maybe the gloves in the foreground of the previous photo are the pair he wears here?

 

ROUEN 1917

11. - 'Rouen 1917'.

 

12. - 'Rouen 1917'. One of the photos I missed out on appears to show this man in a trench. The trench is very tidy so I suspect is a training trench. He stands on the right of two other men, the middle of whom looks to be the man in photo 15.

 

13. - 'Rouen 1917'. I believe this man is a Gordon Highlander? The fourth photo I didn't win showed this man and the man in photo 17 having their picture taken with two VAD nurses on the edge of a woodland.

Edited 16 October , 2023 by gunnerwalker
Re-formatted the layout for easier reading

[gunnerwalker]

14. - 'Rouen 1917'. A Gloucestershire Regiment officer.

 

15. - 'Rouen 1917'. 

 

16. - 'Rouen 1917'. The same man as in picture 13?

 

17. - 'Rouen 1917'.

 

18. - 'Bourges 1917'. A ruined French factory.

 

19. - 'Rouen 1917'. The sign to the left of the doorway says 'B COY H.Q.'.

Edited 16 October , 2023 by gunnerwalker
Re-formatted the layout for easier reading

[gunnerwalker]

ITALY 1917

20. - 'Billet at Barbarano 1917'.

 

21. - 'Taken from train. Italy 1917'.

 

22. - 'Bridge across River Po. Italy 1917'.

 

23.

 

24. - 'Italy'. 

 

25. An officer poses with a gas shell, wearing a Scottish cutaway jacket. 

 

26. A damaged Italian town.

Edited 16 October , 2023 by gunnerwalker
Re-formatted the layout for easier reading

[gunnerwalker]

YORKSHIRE 1918

27. Countryside.

 

28. A countryside village.

 

29. - 'Lts Wisnutt + Ott. Ripon 1918'. I haven't been able to find any medal cards with the surname Wisnutt, and no officers named Ott in Scottish regiments.

 

30. - 'T McGill. Ripon 1918'. He appears to be 2/Lieutenant Thomas McGill, Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders.

Edited 16 October , 2023 by gunnerwalker
Re-formatted the layout for easier reading

[gmac101]

With regards to the Scottish officer, the KOSB wore a cutaway jacket with trews in Leslie tartan.  The Leslie tartan has a prominent white line in it which could be what you see in that photograph. 

[gunnerwalker]

24 minutes ago, gmac101 said:

With regards to the Scottish officer, the KOSB wore a cutaway jacket with trews in Leslie tartan.  The Leslie tartan has a prominent white line in it which could be what you see in that photograph. 

Thanks for the tip, I'll try and do some comparisons. 

[TEW]

Gilbert Stacey Castle.

His MC is for the Wyrall description of events for Ovillers July 1917.

The uncensored Gazette gives 'Ovillers 16/17 July 1916.

He should be in the Gazette for 22/9/16 under his full name.

TEW

[gunnerwalker]

4 minutes ago, TEW said:

Gilbert Stacey Castle.

His MC is for the Wyrall description of events for Ovillers July 1917.

The uncensored Gazette gives 'Ovillers 16/17 July 1916.

He should be in the Gazette for 22/9/16 under his full name.

TEW

Interesting. That means those photos must be from September/October 1916, later than I thought. I was basing my assumption of the date on the garden plants still looking healthy so thought it must be before they went up to the line at the Somme - though now I notice the ivy up the wall isn't looking in the best of shape. Based on his award date they must be at the turn of summer into autumn, and much closer to the time Lieutenants Matthews and Phippen were killed. Perhaps it was soon after his MC that he was transferred to the Hampshires given his company had a new commander by November. Many thanks indeed!

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, gunnerwalker said:

10. - 'J.Y.B. France 1917'. He is the only person mentioned by initials rather than by name, so perhaps he is the owner of the photo album? I'm not sure if he wears the uniform of the Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders though. I can't quite tell if he is the same person as in pictures 1, 11, 17, 19 and 23, or if he is one of two men who look very alike. A photo I didn't win perhaps also shown this man wearing a steel helmet in a training trench. It's not clear, but some facial features seem to match and he wears a cutaway jacket. 

Though the caption says 1917, I've included it here as the hut seems to be alike the ones in the previous two photos and his gloved hands suggest cold weather, so likely to be the winter of 1916/17. The photo paper also matches all of those for the 1916 photos. Maybe the gloves in the foreground of the previous photo are the pair he wears here?
 

ROUEN 1917

11. - 'Rouen 1917'.

12. - 'Rouen 1917'. One of the photos I missed out on appears to show this man in a trench. The trench is very tidy so I suspect is a training trench. He stands on the right of two other men, the middle of whom looks to be the man in photo 15.

13. - 'Rouen 1917'. I believe this man is a Gordon Highlander? The fourth photo I didn't win showed this man and the man in photo 17 having their picture taken with two VAD nurses on the edge of a woodland.
 

Lowermost officer is Ar

 

1 hour ago, gunnerwalker said:

SPRING - WINTER 1916

1. - 'France 1916'. I'm not sure about identifying the regiment, but clearly a Scottish officer by the trews and cutaway jacket.

2. An officer of the Gloucestershire Regiment posing in the ruins of a factory. Perhaps the same man as in photo 14?

3. - 'Lt. Andrews, left, Lt. Welsby, right'. 

Lt. Andrews I have been unable to confirm with certainty, though I strongly suspect my two candidates are the same person. 

The first is Frederick Dudley Andrews, MC. Of the 1/4th Battalion, he achieved the rank of Captain before he was killed in action on the 14th August 1917. Son of Thomas and Edith of Lichfield, Staffordshire. He was the husband of Gladys of Shustoke, Warwickshire. Buried at Track X Cemetary, St. Jean-les-Ypres. The awarding of his Military Cross was published in the London Gazette on 1st January 1917 (page 30 - https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29886/supplement/44). His portrait is available on Lives of the First World War but it's not easy to match to this photo - https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/59019. 

The other consideration is Captain E. L. Andrews. I saw the name mentioned in Wyrall's 'The Gloucestershire Regiment' as being among the 1/4th casualties for August 1917, page 226. The details seem to line up but the name is different.

The most likely match for Lt. Welsby I've been able to find is Cecil M. Welsby, who was initially a private in the Gloucestershire Yeomanry, regimental number 2182. He went with them to Egypt in 1915 but at some point was commissioned a 2/Lieutenant and joined the 1/4th Gloucestershire, later reaching the rank of Captain.
 

Uppermost officer is Royal Scots I think.

1 hour ago, gunnerwalker said:

10. - 'J.Y.B. France 1917'. He is the only person mentioned by initials rather than by name, so perhaps he is the owner of the photo album? I'm not sure if he wears the uniform of the Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders though. I can't quite tell if he is the same person as in pictures 1, 11, 17, 19 and 23, or if he is one of two men who look very alike. A photo I didn't win perhaps also shown this man wearing a steel helmet in a training trench. It's not clear, but some facial features seem to match and he wears a cutaway jacket. 

Though the caption says 1917, I've included it here as the hut seems to be alike the ones in the previous two photos and his gloved hands suggest cold weather, so likely to be the winter of 1916/17. The photo paper also matches all of those for the 1916 photos. Maybe the gloves in the foreground of the previous photo are the pair he wears here?
 

ROUEN 1917

11. - 'Rouen 1917'.

12. - 'Rouen 1917'. One of the photos I missed out on appears to show this man in a trench. The trench is very tidy so I suspect is a training trench. He stands on the right of two other men, the middle of whom looks to be the man in photo 15.

13. - 'Rouen 1917'. I believe this man is a Gordon Highlander? The fourth photo I didn't win showed this man and the man in photo 17 having their picture taken with two VAD nurses on the edge of a woodland.
 

Lowermost officer is Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, gunnerwalker said:

ITALY 1917

20. - 'Billet at Barbarano 1917'.

21. - 'Taken from train. Italy 1917'.

22. - 'Bridge across River Po. Italy 1917'.

23.
 

24. - 'Italy'. 

25. An officer poses with a gas shell, wearing a Scottish cutaway jacket. 

26. A damaged Italian town.
 

Officer with women Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders again.

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, gunnerwalker said:

YORKSHIRE 1918

27. Countryside.

28. A countryside village.

29. - 'Lts Wisnutt + Ott. Ripon 1918'. I haven't been able to find any medal cards with the surname Wisnutt, and no officers named Ott in Scottish regiments.

30. - 'T McGill. Ripon 1918'. He appears to be 2/Lieutenant Thomas McGill, Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders.
 

All these officers are also Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.  Key features include three rows of white dicing on glengarry caps, rosettes on government tartan No 1a kilt** front, and the conjoined collar badge of boar’s head and wildcat.

**incidentally adopted as the unifying tartan of the contemporary Royal Regiment of Scotland.  It differs from the government tartan No 1 (aka Black Watch) in that its two primary colours are of a lighter and brighter shade.  It was the A&SH contribution to the mishmash uniform adopted for the new regiment.

Edited 14 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, gunnerwalker said:

Thanks for the tip, I'll try and do some comparisons. 

The Mackenzie over stripe was white and so shows very pale.  The one concerned in your photo seems darker and so may be Hunting Stewart.  Note four horizontal rows of pale colour.

Edited 14 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

And here are Mackenzie trews.  In this sett five rows of horizontal pale colour.

Looking again at your photo the sett does compare better with this which suggests that the officer is perhaps Highland Light Infantry rather than Royal Scots. 

Edited 14 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[gunnerwalker]

11 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

All these officers are also Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.  Key features three rows of white dicing on glengarry caps and rosettes on government tartan No 1a kilt** front.

**incidentally adopted as the unifying tartan of the contemporary Royal Regiment of Scotland.  It differs from the government tartan No 1 (aka Black Watch) in that its two primary colours are of a lighter and brighter shade.  It was the A&SH contribution to the mishmash uniform adopted for the new regiment.

Thank you FROGSMILE. Good to know they're mostly consistent with the same regiment. I have seen a couple of mentions of the Argyle & Sutherlands relieving the Gloucesters in trench sectors in France but I'll have to go back through and look at positions as I know they weren't in the same Brigade or Division. 1/4th and 1/6th Gloucesters were 144th Brigade, 48th (South Midland) Division. Then I'll have to look where the Royal Scots fit in.

Was it common for there to be some kind of gathering when gallantry awards were issued? That may explain why members of the three regiments all come together at a fairly grand looking house. Perhaps someone brought a camera and they all posed for their portrait after the new awards had been given. Gilbert Castle certainly looks like he's standing tall.

[FROGSMILE]

7 minutes ago, gunnerwalker said:

Thank you FROGSMILE. Good to know they're mostly consistent with the same regiment. I have seen a couple of mentions of the Argyle & Sutherlands relieving the Gloucesters in trench sectors in France but I'll have to go back through and look at positions as I know they weren't in the same Brigade or Division. 1/4th and 1/6th Gloucesters were 144th Brigade, 48th (South Midland) Division. Then I'll have to look where the Royal Scots fit in.

Was it common for there to be some kind of gathering when gallantry awards were issued? That may explain why members of the three regiments all come together at a fairly grand looking house. Perhaps someone brought a camera and they all posed for their portrait after the new awards had been given. Gilbert Castle certainly looks like he's standing tall.

Yes, I suspect that they were perhaps in another brigade of the same division, or else from a neighbouring division in the same corps.

It was common for medal ceremonies (presentation of decorations) to be at the highest level gathering possible.  This might be a divisional, or even corps gathering, the intent being for all regiments and brigades to be inspired by not just their own activities and achievements but those of others.  It was to generate regimental pride and spirit.

Edited 14 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[gunnerwalker]

4 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes, I suspect that they were perhaps in another brigade of the same division, or else from a neighbouring division in the same corps.

It was common for medal ceremonies (presentation of decorations) to be at the highest level gathering possible.  This might be a divisional, or even corps gathering, the intent being for all regiments and brigades to be inspired by not just their own activities and achievements but those of others.  It was to generate regimental pride and spirit.

I see. Perhaps if this is an example of one then there is a record of it somewhere. In the photo I mentioned showing Captain Wookey (which I don't own) he was also wearing an MC ribbon. Captain Castle also appears to be wearing a second ribbon although I can't quite make it out. Maybe the Gloucester Lieutenants have gone to see their company commanders receive their awards.

[FROGSMILE]

6 minutes ago, gunnerwalker said:

I see. Perhaps if this is an example of one then there is a record of it somewhere. In the photo I mentioned showing Captain Wookey (which I don't own) he was also wearing an MC ribbon. Captain Castle also appears to be wearing a second ribbon although I can't quite make it out. Maybe the Gloucester Lieutenants have gone to see their company commanders receive their awards.

Such formal award ceremonies would probably be mentioned in war diaries providing they took place in a theatre of operations. 

[TEW]

With regards to the awards of gallantry medals. As far as I know, once the award had been published in The Gazette the man could then obtain ribbon to sew on to his uniform.

The actual award of the physical medal is another matter and from what I recall Castle was not decorated (with the actual MC) until March 1917.

I'm sure they knew they were in line for an MC and just had to wait for publication. Not sure there would be a big ceremony for the issue of the ribbon.

TEW

[FROGSMILE]

1 minute ago, TEW said:

With regards to the awards of gallantry medals. As far as I know, once the award had been published in The Gazette the man could then obtain ribbon to sew on to his uniform.

The actual award of the physical medal is another matter and from what I recall Castle was not decorated (with the actual MC) until March 1917.

I'm sure they knew they were in line for an MC and just had to wait for publication. Not sure there would be a big ceremony for the issue of the ribbon.

TEW

Yes I agree.  It was only actual medal presentations that generated an award ceremony and as you say ribbons went up far sooner.

[gunnerwalker]

29 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Such formal award ceremonies would probably be mentioned in war diaries providing they took place in a theatre of operations. 

 

26 minutes ago, TEW said:

With regards to the awards of gallantry medals. As far as I know, once the award had been published in The Gazette the man could then obtain ribbon to sew on to his uniform.

The actual award of the physical medal is another matter and from what I recall Castle was not decorated (with the actual MC) until March 1917.

I'm sure they knew they were in line for an MC and just had to wait for publication. Not sure there would be a big ceremony for the issue of the ribbon.

TEW

Thanks both. I'll check the war diary as FROGSMILE suggested anyway.

As you very helpfully provided the date Castle was Gazetted then that gives me a bracket to check. Previously I hadn't looked around then as I had no dates standing out in my research to relate to that period.

Edited 14 October , 2023 by gunnerwalker