Robert Munnoch | Royal Garrison Artillery

[Jack Burns]

Hi All, 

I am currently researching the service of my great great uncle, Robert Munnoch. I have found his medal index cards but have been unable to find any unit that he was a part of. I am really interested in knowing what battles he fought in. I have attached the photos of the medal cards (Copyright goes to the National Archives). If anyone knows anything more about the RGA and any battles he fought in please let me know. 

Thanks,

Jack

[Malcolm Linham]

Jack 

The Royal Artillery is not the easiest to research as to where your great uncle fought , you would need to identify which battery he served with to follow his footsteps around the Great War.

The Royal Artillery in the First World War - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

The above link will explain more.

Best of luck with your research.

Malcolm 

[battiscombe]

You may note on the LLT link that the 'date of entry' of most RGA batteries appears, and I have not seen any RGA Battery (Heavy or Siege Bty) that arrived on 1/7/1915.. which rather confirms he  arrived as an unattached reinforcement at the RGA Base in France.. [this is probably the 'RGA Details' on medal roll]. Looking through the RGA medal rolls I have to hand, it is possible to find records of a few others with that date of entry.. a couple at least followed that route showing they were 'posted to BEF' , and were subsequently sent as replacements from Base to various batteries, at least one went to 116th Heavy Battery, and another to 118th Heavy Battery... both of which had been in France since 1914..

This makes it likely that it will indeed be very hard to identify his unit unless you get a lucky break with another source of information..  One thing I can confirm is that - to date - I have found no examples of any RGA men with that date-of-entry being posted to Trench Mortar batteries .. if plenty in June 1915 and also those arriving 7-7-1915

I would think that the laborious process of checking for any more surviving records of RGA men who have the same 1-7-1915  'date of entry' on the 1915 Star medalrolls might just throw up some lead as to where some 1st July arrivals were later posted from 'Base'.. [at least narrowing down the possibilities] but you may well draw  a blank I am afraid..

[charlie962]

He looks to me to be a mid November 1914 attestation to the RGA. Possibly then posted to No4 Depot RGA at Great Yarmouth..

Was he a Falkirk man? You haven't given us a clue as to his age, domicile etc.

Edited 6 November , 2023 by charlie962

[Jack Burns]

3 hours ago, charlie962 said:

He looks to me to be a mid November 1914 attestation to the RGA. Possibly then posted to No4 Depot RGA at Great Yarmouth..

Was he a Falkirk man? You haven't given us a clue as to his age, domicile etc.

Hi Charlie, 

Sorry about that, wrote this post while rushing to get out the door. 

He was from Polmont, Scotland. Age: Roughly 28, Born around 1887. That's all I currently have. 

5 hours ago, battiscombe said:

You may note on the LLT link that the 'date of entry' of most RGA batteries appears, and I have not seen any RGA Battery (Heavy or Siege Bty) that arrived on 1/7/1915.. which rather confirms he  arrived as an unattached reinforcement at the RGA Base in France.. [this is probably the 'RGA Details' on medal roll]. Looking through the RGA medal rolls I have to hand, it is possible to find records of a few others with that date of entry.. a couple at least followed that route showing they were 'posted to BEF' , and were subsequently sent as replacements from Base to various batteries, at least one went to 116th Heavy Battery, and another to 118th Heavy Battery... both of which had been in France since 1914..

This makes it likely that it will indeed be very hard to identify his unit unless you get a lucky break with another source of information..  One thing I can confirm is that - to date - I have found no examples of any RGA men with that date-of-entry being posted to Trench Mortar batteries .. if plenty in June 1915 and also those arriving 7-7-1915

I would think that the laborious process of checking for any more surviving records of RGA men who have the same 1-7-1915  'date of entry' on the 1915 Star medalrolls might just throw up some lead as to where some 1st July arrivals were later posted from 'Base'.. [at least narrowing down the possibilities] but you may well draw  a blank I am afraid..

Where do I find the medal roll list ? 

[Jack Burns]

Where can I find a list of RGA units posted at Great Yarmouth? I found a document with the RGA numbering system, indicating that he was posted to No.4 Great Yarmouth Depot. 

 

 

[Jack Burns]

Hello All, 

I posted a request asking for help in finding the unit that my great uncle Robert Munnoch served in in another post, however I did not post all the required information on accident, hence why I am reposting. This post should contain all the information I have on him. If you are able to help please reply to this topic with any information you have. This is my last chance to find his unit, I have looked at all the documents I can find. 

Name: Robert Munnoch

Born: 1887 (Roughly) 

Home: Polmont, Scotland (Ochilview, Shieldhill)

Medals Received: 1914-15 Star, Victory Medal, British War Medal, British Empire Medal (Order of the British Empire)

Corps: Royal Garrison Artillery 

Rank: Gunner

 

All documents I have are found below, 

The Newspaper article about his enlistment is one of the pdf's

Note: The medal records are from the National Archives and the Newspapers are from the Falkirk Herald. 

 

BL_0000733_19141118_054_0003.pdf WO-372-14-144555.pdf

Edited 9 November , 2023 by Jack Burns

[PRC]

Perhaps the admins can merge the two threads to prevent duplication of effort.

Cheers,
Peter

[Michelle Young]

Threads merged. 

[kildaremark]

Not going to be easy.

 

A few points.  He arrived overseas on 1 July 1915. The Medal Roll records that he was "Base Details" when he first entered a theatre of war.  Therefore you can infer from this that he did not arrive  in France with a newly formed unit but, rather was assigned to a unit on arrival in France.

A search of the medal index cards for say 50 men either side of him and see if you can find any others who arrived in France on 1 July 1915.   If you do, see if any of them have service record / pension record which states what unit they went to.  There is a reasonable chance that he went to the same unit. You then go and download the war diary for that unit and you might get lucky.

 

For example 51722 James Simpson Base Details went overseas on 6/8/1915 so he is no good to you. All the others on the same page with a unit mentioned should not be a match as they were assigned to these units before going overseas.

If you cant find service records, look on CWGC for 50 men either side of him and see which units they were killed with, ideally 1915 casualties as many gunners changed units frequently.

Researching RGA gunners requires a lot of patience and luck. .....  A couple of years researching that should keep you busy!

 

51713 Alexander Law is interesting for you as he enlisted on 16 November 1914 at Forfax and got his service number with the RGA at Great Yarmouth on 17 November 1914.  You can imagine that your ancestor stood beside him at Great Yarmouth when their regimental numbers were issued.

51712 George Lawrence didn't go overseas until after 1 January 1916 as there is no date on his MIC.

51739 James Tudor enlisted the same day and went overseas on the same day 1/7/1915 so he's someone worth investigating. He is also marked as Base Details.

51740 Brown has a service record. His service record gives you an idea of what you might find i.e. proceeded overseas on 24/6/1915. Joined 7th Brigade 6/7/1915 with 81 Siege Battery. Note he joined "from Base" i.e. Base details.

 

Mark

Edited 9 November , 2023 by kildaremark

[Jack Burns]

2 hours ago, kildaremark said:

Not going to be easy.

 

A few points.  He arrived overseas on 1 July 1915. The Medal Roll records that he was "Base Details" when he first entered a theatre of war.  Therefore you can infer from this that he did not arrive  in France with a newly formed unit but, rather was assigned to a unit on arrival in France.

A search of the medal index cards for say 50 men either side of him and see if you can find any others who arrived in France on 1 July 1915.   If you do, see if any of them have service record / pension record which states what unit they went to.  There is a reasonable chance that he went to the same unit. You then go and download the war diary for that unit and you might get lucky.

 

For example 51722 James Simpson Base Details went overseas on 6/8/1915 so he is no good to you. All the others on the same page with a unit mentioned should not be a match as they were assigned to these units before going overseas.

If you cant find service records, look on CWGC for 50 men either side of him and see which units they were killed with, ideally 1915 casualties as many gunners changed units frequently.

Researching RGA gunners requires a lot of patience and luck. .....  A couple of years researching that should keep you busy!

 

51713 Alexander Law is interesting for you as he enlisted on 16 November 1914 at Forfax and got his service number with the RGA at Great Yarmouth on 17 November 1914.  You can imagine that your ancestor stood beside him at Great Yarmouth when their regimental numbers were issued.

51712 George Lawrence didn't go overseas until after 1 January 1916 as there is no date on his MIC.

51739 James Tudor enlisted the same day and went overseas on the same day 1/7/1915 so he's someone worth investigating. He is also marked as Base Details.

51740 Brown has a service record. His service record gives you an idea of what you might find i.e. proceeded overseas on 24/6/1915. Joined 7th Brigade 6/7/1915 with 81 Siege Battery. Note he joined "from Base" i.e. Base details.

 

Mark

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the information, I am quite new at this and am wondering where you are searching for these men's regimental numbers. 

[kildaremark]

Use ancestry or findmypast and search by number and or name and look for Royal Garrison Artillery men or use the medal roll index pages from the same source and go back and forward a few pages each way to get the name and refence numbers of the men you want before then searching for other records of these me. I note the following:

You have to go back through a good few records to find a few for 1/7/15:

50597 Gnr J Knight      Overseas 1/7/15

50610 Gnr H Boulton  Overseas 1/7/15

50557 Gnr W Dickson  "

50562 Gnr W Perkins  "

50569 Gnr A Cartwright  "

There are plenty more in the preceeding pages for 1/7/15...  50512 Jaggard, 50520 Price,, 50532 Owen, 50552 Weller

I would look at these men and see if you can find out where they went in France, see have they service records etc and then look at their unit war diaries - could get lucky., for example did they all go to the same unit or different units.

Mark

 

Edit:  David Jaggard died 7 May 1917 in UK

50532 Driver Thomas Owen was wounded in left leg with Devon 159 Heavy Battery around 5 October 1916 and appears on a hospital list. So Driver Owen arrived in France on the same day as Munnoch and was wounded a year later with 159 Heavy Battery. He also appears in another list for an injured leg on 31 March 1916 with no specific battery mentioned. The question will be as to whether he rejoined the same unit before being wounded with 159 Heavy Battery. 159 HB didn't go overseas before July 1915 so he must have bee nwith a different unit initially.   If there is a war diary for 159 Heavy Battery it might show if replacement gunners arrived around 1 July 1915 and see if there was a batch of them to include your gunner?

50569 Alfred Cartright has a service record. Was posted to 25 HB at home but then sent to Depot and overseas as Base Details before being posted to 1 Siege Battery. Hard to know what he was doing in France between July and September without a unit.

Edited 10 November , 2023 by kildaremark