William Smith, please can you identify the Regiment?

[Dory]

I am trying to find out more about this persons military history but I have no information pertaining to the military and his name is William Smith.

[Michelle Young]

It looks like a Royal Fusiliers cap badge to me. 

[kenf48]

 

13 minutes ago, Dory said:

am trying to find out more about this persons military history but I have no information pertaining to the military and his name is William Smith.

Perhaps if you tell us what more you know, date of birth, residence, married/single did he survive the war etc all helps to eliminate the 3000 William Smiths in the extant records

[Dory]

William Smith B:1886 in Paddington  D:1946 in Kensal Rise

Married 1908 Emma Susan Williams

 

[Michelle Young]

@FROGSMILE, @CorporalPunishment can you provide identification please? 

[FROGSMILE]

26 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

@FROGSMILE, @CorporalPunishment can you provide identification please? 

I think he’s Royal Fusiliers if a regular or war raised service battalion, and 1st to 4th London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers) TF if not.

The badge has been bent a bit, but it’s still recognisable.

There were an enormous number of battalions formed wearing that badge.  See:http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-fusiliers-city-of-london-regiment/

Edited 26 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Michelle Young]

Now over to the genealogy experts. @Dory did he have any middle names? 

[TomWW1]

16 hours ago, Dory said:

William Smith B:1886 in Paddington  D:1946 in Kensal Rise

Married 1908 Emma Susan Williams

 

Can I get a regimental number please if you ever find out one 

Edited 26 November , 2023 by TomWW1

[Allan1892]

16 hours ago, Dory said:

William Smith B:1886 in Paddington

The family were living at 7 Kensal Place when the 1939 Register was taken. Williams date of birth is shown as 14th October 1886

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Dory

As kenf48 has shown above, trying to identify a William Smith out of the many thousands in the British Army may at first sight might seem a hard task, but not totally impossible. If we assume that he went abroad, and that he was in the Royal Fusiliers, then it is pretty certain that he was awarded campaign medals. Records of these areavailable on Ancestry under the Medal Index Cards or the Medal Rolls.
If you search for "William Smith" and "Royal Fusiliers", you will return a list of about 350 (MICs) or 325 (Medal Rolls).
These numbers are artificially high, being inflated by men in regiments like Royal [Welsh, Scots, Munster] Fusiliers.
William Smiths who have a MIC and who were specifically in the Royal Fusiliers number just 159.
Of these, 5 William Smiths died in the war, along with another 5 W. Smiths.
That reduces the number to 154 or 149.

I would start with the Absent Voters' Lists, several of which survive for London constituencies. The Absent Voters Lists list a man's address and his service number, some are on Ancestry, some on FMP, some elsewhere, that could give a clue to the man's residence in London. These might give you an instant result, although more likely they would enable you to exclude many William Smiths who are irrelevant to your search.
You can cross reference the results with the 1939 Register.

The next thing to check is for a Service Record in the 'Burnt' or 'Unburnt' series.
Unfortunately only between 20-40% survive, but again they are on Ancestry or Find my Past.
You might get lucky and find the record of your man.
If not, you will be able to exclude 20-40% of the 150 odd names.

Then there are Pension Record Cards of men who claimed some sort of pension  after the war.

I suggest that your search, although difficult, is not impossible. It all depends on how much legwork you are willing to put in to identify the man in this photo.
To get you started, I attach a spreadsheet of the 159 names on your starting list.
(It's in CSV format, so you will have to adjust formatting and column widths etc. and save in Excel as an .xls file.
All the best.

William Smith RF.csv

[Allan1892]

For anyone searching the Absent Voters Lists, in the 1911 Census, the family were living at 23 Cirencester Street, Paddington and in the 1921 Census, the family were living at 39, Southam Street, Kensington

Hope this helps to narrow the field.

[Dory]

No middle names for him.

[Dory]

8 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Dory

As kenf48 has shown above, trying to identify a William Smith out of the many thousands in the British Army may at first sight might seem a hard task, but not totally impossible. If we assume that he went abroad, and that he was in the Royal Fusiliers, then it is pretty certain that he was awarded campaign medals. Records of these areavailable on Ancestry under the Medal Index Cards or the Medal Rolls.
If you search for "William Smith" and "Royal Fusiliers", you will return a list of about 350 (MICs) or 325 (Medal Rolls).
These numbers are artificially high, being inflated by men in regiments like Royal [Welsh, Scots, Munster] Fusiliers.
William Smiths who have a MIC and who were specifically in the Royal Fusiliers number just 159.
Of these, 5 William Smiths died in the war, along with another 5 W. Smiths.
That reduces the number to 154 or 149.

I would start with the Absent Voters' Lists, several of which survive for London constituencies. The Absent Voters Lists list a man's address and his service number, some are on Ancestry, some on FMP, some elsewhere, that could give a clue to the man's residence in London. These might give you an instant result, although more likely they would enable you to exclude many William Smiths who are irrelevant to your search.
You can cross reference the results with the 1939 Register.

The next thing to check is for a Service Record in the 'Burnt' or 'Unburnt' series.
Unfortunately only between 20-40% survive, but again they are on Ancestry or Find my Past.
You might get lucky and find the record of your man.
If not, you will be able to exclude 20-40% of the 150 odd names.

Then there are Pension Record Cards of men who claimed some sort of pension  after the war.

I suggest that your search, although difficult, is not impossible. It all depends on how much legwork you are willing to put in to identify the man in this photo.
To get you started, I attach a spreadsheet of the 159 names on your starting list.
(It's in CSV format, so you will have to adjust formatting and column widths etc. and save in Excel as an .xls file.
All the best.

William Smith RF.csv 11.09 kB · 2 downloads

I have looked through the absent voters and the burnt/unburnt service records. Nothing yet.

[Dory]

I have found a cousin who knows that he was at Paschendale and got shot in the throat. He survived. 
 

Edited 28 November , 2023 by Dory

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

57 minutes ago, Dory said:

I have found a cousin who knows that he was at Paschendale and got shot in the throat. He survived. 
 

OK.
There's a possibility there might be a casualty record or hospital admission.
 

[Allan1892]

8 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

There's a possibility there might be a casualty record or hospital admission.

Just finished checking and have drawn a blank.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

Just finished checking and have drawn a blank.

Thanks for looking.

[Bordercollie]

Here is a possibility for you.  Starting with the Police Gazette which helpfully gives Paddington as the place of birth of 4593 William Smith 6th Bn Royal Fusiliers (index image courtesy of Forces War Records).  Unfortunately an image of the September 1916 Police Gazette is not available on line. It would be helpful because I think the information given in the Gazette usually included a date or year of birth.  The regimental number 4593 leads us to a Medal Index Card and Medal Rolls (images courtesy of Ancestry) that show arrival in France on 23/02/1915.  That is before the Police Gazette entry.  The 6th Bn Royal Fusiliers was a reserve battalion and so William Smith must have served with one of the regular battalions of the regiment in France before being posted back to the 6th battalion possibly after being wounded, although a wound sustained between February 1915 and August 1916 would not have been at the Battle of Passchendaele which was in 1917.  This William Smith subsequently served with the Labour Corps.  I have not been able to link an address to this William Smith.  Although there is a pension index card it does not include an address and the Paddington AVL is not available on line.  The 1919 Paddington AVL is held at Westminster City Archives so that might be worth a visit or a telephone call. 

 

[Allan1892]

@Bordercollie -- the occupation / trade shown in the Police Gazette image matches that of William in the 1921 Census. (image courtesy of Find My Past)

[Bordercollie]

9 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

@Bordercollie -- the occupation / trade shown in the Police Gazette image matches that of William in the 1921 Census. (image courtesy of Find My Past)

 

That looks like man found or a remarkable coincidence then.  It might be possible to link him to a battalion in 1915 by matching up the date of his arrival in theatre with the dates of arrival of drafts (if recorded) in battalion war diaries. It looks like it would have been 1st, 3rd or 4th battalions as the 2nd were on their way to Gallipoli soon after February 1915.

[Allan1892]

The British Newspaper Archive site has the Police Gazette for September 1916 but I don't have a subscription to it.

[Dory]

2 hours ago, Allan1892 said:

The British Newspaper Archive site has the Police Gazette for September 1916 but I don't have a subscription to it.

Image courtesy of BNA

[Bordercollie]

1 hour ago, Allan1892 said:

The British Newspaper Archive site has the Police Gazette for September 1916 but I don't have a subscription to it.

So it is courtesy of Find My Past.  It look like the age in 1916 indicates a date of birth around 1886.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

5 hours ago, Bordercollie said:

The 1919 Paddington AVL is held at Westminster City Archives so that might be worth a visit or a telephone call. 

I can never praise AVLs enough.
95% of all entries will have the man's name, rank, serial number, Unit/regiment/ship/squadron and his address.
So getting that AVL has a 95% chance of confirming the man in the picture* as the man in the Police Gazette.
Get it today!

* He reminds me of a young John Lennon. Bit of a rebel maybe?

Edited 29 November , 2023 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Dory]

46 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

I can never praise AVLs enough.

What is an AVL, I just did a general search on google and nothing came up. Thank you.