John BLESSING / Patrick O'BRIEN

[Matlock1418]

On seeing, and for reasons that may seem fairly obvious, this record caught my eye [and as it proved akin to my interests in ex-servicemen's treatment]

Thus, as the winter nights are now drawing in I thought it would offer a rabbit hole for exploration [for self and others] - with sad origins and ending it would likely seem.

But what also went on in between / in his military service? [this is where I really need others' help please - however of course, genealogicaly origins and ending also welcomed]

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

A pension index card for John BLESSING, 21806, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, etc          

There is a similarly detailed PIC for Patrick O'BRIEN, 21806, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, etc   

A further pension ledger page records Pte. Patrick O'BRIEN, 21806, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, was discharged 13.12.19

His address was given as Crawer Rd Hospital, Paisley, and his disability as Moral Imbecility - Art. 7 case

The RW 1918 applied [7 (1) for a man discharged as medically unfit for further service, such unfitness being neither attributable to nor aggravated by military service, and not being due to the serious negligence or misconduct of the discharged man ... One actually suspects 7 (2) applied - the Minister of Pensions may pay any charges, fees or expenses not otherwise provided for, in respect in respect of the treatment for the period of the war and 12 months afterwards of any disabled man who comes within the provisions of the preceding sub-section and who is certified to need medical treatment in an institution; provided such treatment shall be limited to the disability for which the man was discharged 

This 1926 publication gives a description of his condition 

British Journal of Medical Psychology

THE DEFINITION AND DIAGNOSIS OF MORAL IMBECILITY,  A. F. TREDGOLD First published: March 1926

https://doi.org/10.1111/j.2044-8341.1926.tb00622.x

A contribution to a Symposium arranged by the Education and Medical Sections of the British Psychological Society in March 1926.

https://bpspsychub.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.2044-8341.1926.tb00622.x#:~:text=Moral Imbeciles are defined as,of mental defect and marked

I quote: ... defined as "Person who from an early age display some permanent mental defect coupled with vicious or criminal propensities on which punishment has had little or no deterrent effect" ...

This would likely mean he would be treated in as a MoP 'Service Patient' rather than a 'Pauper lunatic' [at local expense] in an asylum or Mental Hospital.  The adress given on the pension ledger page rather suggests to me to have been the Royal Alexandra Hospital which was does seem to have been used as the Paisley District Asylum [I have not fully investigated this institutition - just a quick web search]

But what of his military career? [and wider?]

TIA for contibutions.

M

Post-script: I have identified other pension records at WFA for a John BLESSING / John WILLIAMS / Patrick O'BRIEN [also with multiple (6) but different military details] - I have opened another thread [though in time it may be come clearer if these threads are to be linked or not] 

See: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/307857-john-williams-john-blessing-patrick-obrien/

Edit: I do not think potential merging of threads would be appropriate given the number of names, units and numbers involved

Edited 30 November , 2023 by Matlock1418
typo

[Tawhiri]

I'm not sure which thread to post on, but Patrick O'Brien does have a medal index card. In trying to make sense of some of the notations on it, I think it is indicating that he enlisted on 17 May 1917, and was discharged on 13 February 1919. He was eligible for the British War and Victory Medals, which were not issued until May 1935. It also looks like he was awarded a Silver War Badge, number 507427. Unfortunately there is nothing useful on the back of the card in the way of addresses or similar.

Noting that John Blessing also appears to have had a stint as a stoker with the Royal Navy leads to this seaman's record for a Michael Patrick Blessing, yet another name to add to the mix. This gives his place of birth as Cavan, Ireland, on 13 September 1892. He enlisted on 13 November 1915, and was discharged on 14 January 1916 to what looks like Cambridge Canterbury, thanks to George Millar, Prison for 90 days. Downloading the file might make it a little clearer, the name of the prison is under the watermark on the preview image.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6987525

It goes without saying that there are no Blessing or O'Brien births registered in Cavan in 1892 that would fit these details.

Image sourced from Ancestry:

Edited 30 November , 2023 by Tawhiri

[George Millar]

Matlock,

It's Canterbury Prison in Kent. Attached record of service. Courtesy of Ancestry.

George

[George Millar]

Patrick O'Brien born 28 May 1893 in Cavan to parents Michael O'Brien & Maria Smith. could this be your man?

George

[Matlock1418]

@Tawhiri Thank you for replying.

Quite a complex situation has this man apparently produced but I think you probably chose the right thread for that MIC [since the following details do not appear there]- Patrick O'BRIEN, 21806, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers - BWM & VM - I note they were issued in May 1935 [I wonder who applied] but they were returned August 1935

The other points you have identified and are of interest - but widen even further the evidence of man's propensity to go under varying names: Michael Patrick BLESSING, K29152, Royal Navy.

1 hour ago, George Millar said:

It's Canterbury Prison in Kent. Attached record of service. Courtesy of Ancestry.

George

Thanks George, appreciated, was just in the process of down-loading it = you've saved me a bit of time and nil cost!

Cor, he certainly got around a bit!

An interesting RN record - On discharge having Run [Deserted] from his first posting his character was described as VG [whilst serving] but later as Indiff[erent] when he was finally discharged to prison.

One might speculate that "Moral Imbicility" might equal "Incorrigibility" too, it rather seems like it since he [seemingly again] joined the Army and was awarded medals and yet eventually was given that first sobriquet on his discharge.  Fair play for the medals. but I do wonder how long he served overseas. ??

M

Edited 30 November , 2023 by Matlock1418
typo

[George Millar]

Attached his Silver War Badge record courtesy of Ancestry - enlisted 17th May 1917 and discharged on the 13th February 1919 aged 26

George

[Matlock1418]

10 minutes ago, George Millar said:

Patrick O'Brien born 28 May 1893 in Cavan to parents Michael O'Brien & Maria Smith. could this be your man?

George

 

3 minutes ago, George Millar said:

Attached his Silver War Badge record courtesy of Ancestry - enlisted 17th May 1917 and discharged on the 13th February 1919 aged 26

George

Thanks again George

21 months with 'The Skins' eh?  I wonder what happened within that period??

M

[Tawhiri]

This would appear to be the family of the Patrick O'Brien, born in Cavan in 1893, that George found, in the 1901 and 1911 Ireland censuses.

1901 - http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cavan/Drumcarbon/Aghanock/1059583/

1911 - http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cavan/Drumcarban/Aghaknock/319983/

[Matlock1418]

After having gone down that list on the PIC in the OP using both BLESSING and O'BRIEN [should have started at the bottom!] = Have found a Service Record for John BLESSING, 3576 at Ancestry [so presumably at FMP too] - sadly can't read it as I don't subscribe [and wish my local library still had access]

M

Edited 30 November , 2023 by Matlock1418

[museumtom]

[Matlock1418]

27 minutes ago, museumtom said:

Thanks Tom - Who do think this Michael BLESSING is?

What relationship if any? - The brother Michael O'BRIEN in the Censuses above??

And where did MB die? - I can't interpret it clearly

M

Edit: And who is Hugh BLESSING - a Hugh isn't showing up on those O'BRIEN Censuses = I'm struggling at the moment

Edited 30 November , 2023 by Matlock1418
edit

[museumtom]

This lad maybe?

Cornaleck in in Cavan.

[museumtom]

 Then again it might be someone else, but the years look good, the address and the name. It even has a Hugh.

Edited 30 November , 2023 by museumtom

[George Millar]

Matlock,

Just looked at John Blessing's service record. He listed his address as Great (Breat) Hill, Balturbet, Co Cavan.  He attested on the 25th May 1915 at Fermoy into the Royal Irish Regiment, Service N° 3576, then posted to the 6th Battalion. However he "Derserted" shortly afterwards on the 29th May 1915. His next of kin was listed as his sister Elizabeth Blessing, Breat Hill, Co Cavan so this would seem to tie up with Tom's 1911 Census of Ireland record of the family who were living at N° 2 Cornaleck, Kilconny, Co Cavan (there being a Lizzie Blessing listed).

Attached images courtesy of Ancestry

George

[George Millar]

Had a look at the Irish Birth records and cannot find one for a John Blessing born about 1893 in Co Cavan or for that matter anywhere else. Would he have enlisted under a false name in place of is own?

George

[Matlock1418]

14 minutes ago, George Millar said:

Just looked at John Blessing's service record. He listed his address as Great (Breat) Hill, Balturbet, Co Cavan.  He attested on the 25th May 1915 at Fermoy into the Royal Irish Regiment, Service N° 3576, then posted to the 6th Battalion. However he "Derserted" shortly afterwards on the 29th May 1915. His next of kin was listed as his sister Elizabeth Blessing, Breat Hill, Co Cavan so this would seem to tie up with Tom's 1911 Census of Ireland record of the family who were living at N° 2 Cornaleck, Kilconny, Co Cavan (there being a Lizzie Blessing listed).

Thanks George.  That seems his first 6/3576, R Irish R; K29152, RN and last 21806, R Innis Fus. numbers sorted - under a variety of names = I wonder where all the other listed Irish Gds numbers came from??

3 minutes ago, George Millar said:

Had a look at the Irish Birth records and cannot find one for a John Blessing born about 1893 in Co Cavan or for that matter anywhere else. Would he have enlisted under a false name in place of is own?

Given his apparent propensity for using a variety of names for himself then it all seems up for grabs at the moment, including date and place of birth when it comes to dealing with the Army/Navy.

Note: Please note the other thread I started on John WILLIAMS / John BLESSING / Patrick O'BRIEN - that may perhaps also end up in this mix too [but not merging - I think a link is preferrable] -  A SR for John WILLIAMS on there.

M

[George Millar]

Matlock,

Found these but not sure if they are connected.

1) John J Blessing listed in the Naval & Military Courts Martial Registers - Regiment Irish Guards

2)  Patrick Blessing, born Breathill, Co Cavan (same address as John) - served 2nd Battalion Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, Service N° 10711 - died on the 30th November 1917. Could this be John's brother?

Images courtesy of Ancestry

George

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, George Millar said:

1) John J Blessing listed in the Naval & Military Courts Martial Registers - Regiment Irish Guards

Once again more thanks for looking around.

IG & CM.  Looks like it could be interesting.  How to view please? - I struggle to see Ancestry these days [finances and my local libray no longer having access  ]

Any number(s) off our PIC list?

1 hour ago, George Millar said:

2)  Patrick Blessing, born Breathill, Co Cavan (same address as John) - served 2nd Battalion Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, Service N° 10711 - died on the 30th November 1917. Could this be John's brother?

I'll have a scan of WFA/Fold3 pension records for a dependant's claim

Edit: Have had a look, Widow, Mary, b.28.1.99, of 4 Ebrington St, Waterside, Londonderry, made a claim and was awarded a £5 grant for bereavement expenses and  13/9 pw from 24.6.18 [standard <45y widow's pension - no children implied or listed] - though he might be good cor corss-checking I'm trying not to get too deep down an extra rabbit hole(s) like this chap!!!

M

Edited 1 December , 2023 by Matlock1418
edit

[George Millar]

Matlock,

The IG & CM record is not on Ancestry (only the summation) but is on Fold3.com which you have to pay in addition for access. Sorry but I only have an Ancestry subscription. Perhaps some other members have access and could have a look to see if there is anymore information in them.

George

[Matlock1418]

2 minutes ago, George Millar said:

The IG & CM record is not on Ancestry (only the summation) but is on Fold3.com which you have to pay in addition for access.

Thanks for the heads-up.  Saved me from wandering the cold streets in vain looking for a library that might have access to Ancestry.

In hope.

M

[George Millar]

Had a look at the John Williams Service record and it might be a bit of a red herring also (although not sure).  It lists him as having been born in Belfast (aged 18 in record) which makes his year of birth as 1891 and the regiment listed is the Highland Light Infantry. He was finally discharged on the 11th November 1910. However, he lists his next of kin as follows:

1) Younger brother Patrick Williams, ????? Co Monaghan

2) Younger brother Michael Williams, Newtownbutler, Co Fermanagh

3) Younger brother Thomas Williams, Scotshouse, Co Fermanagh

See attached images courtesy of Ancestry

George