Help Translating German WW1 Passport

[Garrett]

Pete,

I am very jealous of your time overseas in the archives and the battlefield! Such a cool experience I'm sure. We know that Alois is in a german mass grave in Tolia, Estonia. My mom and I have always wanted to go visit but it hasn't worked out just yet. With the new information on his WW1 experience it would be incredible to work France and Belarus into the mix. 

Very interesting that your father had a similar experience to my Grandfather! He was a big history buff but had a hard time talking about his experience as they fled so we know very little other than a rough map of their route. I do know that they were on the run for about a year. Arriving in Dresden on February 10, 1945 to stay with an Aunt in what they thought would be a safe city. Luckily, they were just outside of the heart of the city when the firebombing took place starting on the 13th. He read quite a few books on that attack trying to understand why it happened, I believe it was a very traumatic experience for him being only 15 at the time. After the bombing they decided to head to a little town called Lingen. Where my Oma was born, and where his father and the family had been transferred in 1936 for training with Infantry Regiment 37. It took them about 10 months to get there again, travelling primarily on foot. From 1945-1955 he worked all kinds of odd jobs before deciding to immigrate to Canada in 1956. He flew my Oma over from Lingen in 1957. 

I purchased that book to read at your recommendation as well! I am very interested to see how it pairs up to what we know about a few of his experiences as a young teen at that time.

It appears we may have something else in common with our relatives, although I have very little to back it up. I was lucky enough to inherit Alois's medals, and in a box was a Silesian Eagle 2nd Class medal. It can also be seen in his wedding photo from 1926. He was assigned to the 8th Squadron Reiter Regiment 8 from December 1919 to April 1920, and then to 4th Squadron for the remainder of his service. The history would help with his whereabouts during the Silesian Uprisings, but based on the existence of the medal I believe he served some time (3 months for a second class medal) on the Polish border, most likely in 1921. This medal is not on his ribbon bar in his 1936 Wehrmacht photo, but as I understand it, it was not officially recognized as a medal by the Third Reich and could not be worn on your uniform during WW2. If you have any other book recommendations for the Polish Uprisings and the "Boy Scouts" that would be great!

That entry is frustratingly vague. I think Charlie and I talked about it a bit above, and I understand it is most likely due to a shell explosion nearby or a collapsed dugout but it would sure be interesting to know more about it. I purchased the history of Reserve Infantry Regiment 111 online but I didn't find much in the way of reference to 10th Company so I am not sure exactly where he would have been on November 1st.

Your Grandfather is lucky to have lived through the battles he did without having to spend much time in the hospital! What would a convalescent company be for? I'm guessing rehabilitating recovering soldiers and getting them ready to return to the front? I only ask about the hospital records as Alois was wounded in the forearm on November 29th, 1917 while he was with the IR 169 near Ripont, and then didn't return to the front until July 3rd, 1918 when he was assigned to Reserve Infantry Regiment 111. Whatever that injury was it must have been serious to take him out of action for 8 months.

Sorry for the late reply!

 

Garrett

[BKK]

Garret,

So much to unpack.

I forgot to add for you another absolutely great book to read on what happen in 1945 with your family. Antony Beevors book "The Fall of Berlin" https://a.co/d/eWcA4n4 . This famous author wrote a great book about Stalingrad, in which he dove deep into not only the German Records, but also the Russian ones. From all that research he had all the ingredients to start the next story of the fall of berlin which has a large scope entailing the motives on all sides, plus the amazing plight of the refugee fleeing the Russians. Reading this book makes you realize that today's world does not have such human tradgedy like what happened during this time. I would actually reccomend reading this book before "German Boy", as it really gives you the big picture of what was going on, which you can put into perspective with "German Boy".

 

Super interesting about your great grandfather being a triple veteran of WW1, The Polish Uprising and WW2. I will do some more research to understand what role he played in 1918-1920.

 

I will also keep digging for more ideas on digging up your great grandfathers service after being wounded. I imagine after they got out of the Hospital that they were put in these "Convelesant Companies" where they were assigned light duty (Like Painting Rocks) while they healed up. Your Great Grandfathers Arm must have been damaged pretty good for the amount of time that he was out of a line unit. My grandfather was wounded twice in the left arm/hand by grenade or shell fragments. There is one picture of him posing with his left hand in his pocket. I think this was taken when he was recovering, as it seems that he is hiding his left hand.

It seems logical that your great grandfather might have been thrown into the Meuse Argonne if he had some entry from 1 Nov. We need to explore that more.

Taking a trip to see these battlefield sights where your great grandfather was is a lifetime of memories to to experience.

I am lucky to have some of these WW1 photos of my grandfather. He said he nearly starved to death, and ate rats to survive. This is one thing that DID stick with him for his whole life. You dared not to leave any food on your plate at his house, or my mother would be kicking me under the table!

Edited 3 June by BKK

[knittinganddeath]

On 27/05/2024 at 09:38, BKK said:

Minus two years in France, my grandfather spent his whole 93 years in Switzerland.....never being a Swiss Citizen.

 

Do you know how he managed to return, I thought that men who had served in the German army were forbidden to return to CH after the war (although given the fact that your grandfather did get back, I guess I must be misremembering).

[GreyC]

The German painter Paul Klee was even born in Bern, served in the German army in WW1 but emigrated to Switzerland in the 1930s and died there 1940.

GreyC

Edited 3 June by GreyC

[Garrett]

Pete,

Those photos are incredible! You are very lucky to have them! It definitely appears he is keeping the focus off of his left hand in most of the pictures. What is the story behind the photo with the airplanes? Unfortunately, on this end, there are no WW1 photos that I know of still in existence. Our earliest photo is in 1926 when they were married in his Reichwehr uniform. Jan was able to shed some light on it earlier in this post. I will attach it again just for your reference as well as a couple photos I have of him later on in life.

In the first photo you can see what I believe is the Silesian Eagle Medal on on the far left.

The second photo is during the interwar years, sometime before 1935. The home in the background was not their house. So we assume he is at some kind of formal party in the photo (Possibly a reunion of sorts?). It is the only photo we have that shows him on horseback, a nod to his time in the cavalry.

The third is one of four photos we have of him in WW2. The writing on the back references his promotion to Gefreiter. Although I know this picture is getting outside this forums focus. 

 

Garrett

[GreyC]

Hi,

in his wedding photo he is wearing (left to right) Iron cross II, long service medal Silesian Eagle.

His rank is that of a Gefreiter. Interesting also is his marksmanship badge down on his sleeve (the horizontal bar) as worn from 1920-1928. Even if it is the lowest possible one (1. Auszeichnung).

10 minutes ago, Garrett said:

The third is one of four photos we have of him in WW2. The writing on the back references his promotion to Gefreiter.

If so, whoever wrote this is wrong. The flap shows him to be an Unterfeldwebel or maybe Feldwebel as it is difficult to discern if he wears only number or chiffre on the flap (Unterfeldwebel, then) or an additional pip apart from number/chiffre.

GreyC

[Garrett]

GreyC,

Thank you for your input! I did not know that horizontal bar on his sleeve was for marksmanship! That is very interesting.

Alois's last promotion before being discharged in 1928 was to Unteroffizer on September 1st, 1926. I believe he was promoted to Feldwebel on November 1st, 1935 so it is possible this photo is from that promotion and whoever wrote on the back was mistaken.We believe he was promoted again in 1937 (possibly to Gefreiter?), and then to his final rank of Stabsfeldwebel in 1940.

Garrett

Edited 4 June by Garrett

[GreyC]

26 minutes ago, Garrett said:

he was promoted again in 1937 (possibly to Gefreiter?)

Hi,

no, that would have been a demotion. I wrote to you that he was wearing a Gefreiten-tunic on his wedding day.

The last photo was taken 1935 or later, as the cap he is wearing was introduced in Oct./Nov. 1935. He is definitely not a Stabsfeldwebel on this picture. Feldwebel at the most.

GreyC

Edited 4 June by GreyC

[Garrett]

GreyC,

Ahh okay that makes sense! The handwriting on his promotion in 1937 is very difficult to read so I wasn't sure what it would have been. Thank you for the clarification!

Garrett

[GreyC]

Hi,

you can scan the reverse and I will try to decipher it. Just changed a typo in my last post with regard to the year of introduction.

Best,

GreyC

[Garrett]

GreyC,

I will attach the page with is promotions below. It is quite possible I don't have them all correct.

Garrett

[GreyC]

On 1st Nov 1935 he was promoted to Unterfeldwebel. The cap he is wearing was introduced 30th. Oct. 1935.

So I would suggest he is wearing the flaps for Unterfeldwebel on the photo if it was taken on promotion day.

GreyC

[Garrett]

Okay so just for fun, I also have this photo from later on in the war. I believe he sent it home showing off his War Merit Cross. But this would have been in his final rank of Stabsfeldwebel? 

[BKK]

10 hours ago, knittinganddeath said:

Do you know how he managed to return, I thought that men who had served in the German army were forbidden to return to CH after the war (although given the fact that your grandfather did get back, I guess I must be misremembering).

Here we get into the murky and suppressed history of Swiss fighting for the Germans in WW1.

This has been a story I have had a hard time cracking, and I need to do more of a deep dive into it. On the surface it is not just flowing with information! Today the Swiss love to project how Neutral they were during the war helping all sides.

The fact is that in the late 1800s, there were a lot of immigrants into Switzerland from primarily Germany and Italy. My great grandfather was one of them. He was born in the town of Ettenhiem, Germany, on the edge of the black forrest. He served his two years basic service in the German Army, and then migrated to Switzerland. Until the 1950's, Switzerland had some pretty strict citizenship rules. A Swiss woman would lose her citizenship if she married a foreigner (Which my Great Grandmother did....She also regained it when he died). So my grandfather, born in 1998 (And Mother born in 1934) were considered GERMAN. Even though he lived his whole life in Switzerland, he died with a German Passport.

That said. I am still not sure if he was actually on the hook for German conscription. He was 18 when he joined the German Army in 1917. Family legend says that his Patriotic Father told him that he needed to go fight for the Fatherland, so he went. The same Patriotic Father who, on first sight of him coming back home in 1919, said "Where is your Iron Cross". Which fittingly, my grandfather replied "Just be happy I am alive". My Great Grandfather was actually registered with a Landsturm Infantrie battalion in Karlsruhe during WW1, and has a photo in a German Uniform. My uncle says that he had a bad leg, so he sent his son

To answer your question. I think there were different rules for actual Swiss Citizens who fought for Germany in WW1, versus Swiss born Germans fought in the war. I have read that there were issues with Swiss returning back into Switzerland, but have not been able to dig much on this.

They suspect around 50,000 "Swiss" had fought for the germans. https://www.pr2.de/pressetext/3176/schweizer+maenner+im+grossen+krieg. If you look in the German KIA,WIA,MIA database, you will see 8000+ entries of men born in Switzerland.

I recently found that a man has written a book addressing this subject, but I have yet to get my hands on it. https://amzn.eu/d/5kwL67o

[GreyC]

2 hours ago, Garrett said:

his War Merit Cross.

It is a Militärverdienstkreuz mit Schwertern 2. Klasse, a typical medal for Feldwebel ranks who did office and organisational work.

GreyC

[GreyC]

To get back to WW1: His father was called to arms on the 24th May 1915, served 4 days (!) with 4th coy of Landsturm-Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon Karlsruhe 3 and was then released back home as "able to work".

Why he served 4 days only is not stated in the text provided.

GreyC

[BKK]

Garrett.

I fixed your photos! Cleaned them up a bit by hand.

[GreyC]

Well done!

GreyC

[BKK]

1 hour ago, GreyC said:

To get back to WW1: His father was called to arms on the 24th May 1915, served 4 days (!) with 4th coy of Landsturm-Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon Karlsruhe 3 and was then released back home as "able to work".

Why he served 4 days only is not stated in the text provided.

GreyC

Thank you very much for that translation. I didn't really catch that 4 days bit when I downloaded that some years back! Interesting how he was allowed to go back to work in Switzerland. Perhaps it was that leg issue my Uncle talked about. His brother who was just nine months younger than him, was called up at the age of 42, and served all 4 years of the war in France, and then Rumania. He earned the Ritterkreuzes des Ordens vom Zähringer Löwen und der silbernen Verdienstmedaille am Bande der militärischen Karl-Friedric Verdienstmeh-daille. In this photo he is wearing that medal, which came with an annual money payment, and the medal had to be returned to the king upon death.

[BKK]

5 hours ago, Garrett said:

Pete,

Those photos are incredible! You are very lucky to have them! It definitely appears he is keeping the focus off of his left hand in most of the pictures. What is the story behind the photo with the airplanes?

 

 

 

Garrett,

Since you asked!

I attached that photo to tell another story about my Polish Grandfather, because I kind of misread the story of your great grandfather in the Uprising. Then I couldn't figure out how to unattach it.

Anyways I will tell you the story.  When my Grandfather's "Boy Scout" group started the Polish Uprising in 1918 in Poznan, they were able to first capture a whole German Garrison there without a shot by posing as coming there to clean. Then they stormed in and took it over. A few days after that they attacked to local airport named Lawica. There was a small firefight, but they captured the German Airfield and found 300 disassembled German WW1 Airplanes in there. In short time they assembled a few of these planes, and with the help of some Polish Pilots who had flown for the Germans in WW1, they conducted the Polish Air Forces first bombing mission against a German town!

Attached is a photo of the Poland's 1st Scout Company, Weilkapolska Rifle Regiment, which was Poland's first Army Unit formed by these "Boy Scouts" who started the Uprising. I think he might be the guy kneeling in the lower right corner. I think it looks like him.

Also another photo from inside the blimp hanger. They fought the Germans, then the Ukrainians. List is of Scouts who earned valor awards from the 2nd "Boy Scout" Company.

The Poles used the Boy Scouts during WW1 timeframe to basically train these boys, and older teens in insurgent tactics for when the war finished. My grandfather was 18 at the time of all this. As I said, these "Insurgents" were high on the kill lists of the Nazis when they came back in 1939.

Seems like you also have family that came from that confusion area between Poland and Germany, where EVERYTHING is mixed up and not quite black and white. Ironically, this Polish Grandfather of mine was born in the Westphalia part of Germany in 1900. Many poles (Like his father) went there to work in the Steel Mills of Germany. Later they moved back to Poznan.

Edited 4 June by BKK

[Garrett]

Pete,

Thank you so much for touching up the photos! The blurry horse head has always bothered me about an otherwise awesome photo!

Your Polish Grandfathers story is also fascinating! Again, I am so impressed with the information you have been able to find on him as you are right, it was an area and a time of confusion! Alois was born in Namslau, just outside of Breslau, so not too far from Poznan really! It is all in Poland these days! The aviation related photos are also incredible! What an interesting life he lived!

The medal that the 42 year old brother won is certainly a mouthful. Do you know what he did to earn such a prestigious medal?

Garrett

[BKK]

3 hours ago, Garrett said:

Pete,

Thank you so much for touching up the photos! The blurry horse head has always bothered me about an otherwise awesome photo!

Your Polish Grandfathers story is also fascinating! Again, I am so impressed with the information you have been able to find on him as you are right, it was an area and a time of confusion! Alois was born in Namslau, just outside of Breslau, so not too far from Poznan really! It is all in Poland these days! The aviation related photos are also incredible! What an interesting life he lived!

The medal that the 42 year old brother won is certainly a mouthful. Do you know what he did to earn such a prestigious medal?

Garrett

Garrett,

No problem on the photos. Just a skill I picked up along the way. Post any other photos you would like fixed.

With regard to that medal. That was one of my main goal when I went to the Baden Archives in Karlsruhe. I had seen online that they had some document with his name on it listing these medals, but nothing else online. I was able to request that document, in which it stated all the guys in his unit who also were reccomended for medals. From what I recall we couldn't determine from this exactly what he did to earn it. Maybe I have to re-attack that again. I do know that it was from his service in France in 1915.

Geneology research in Poland was suppressed during the Communist times, and after that it has become a pretty big hobby in Poland. They have some very good search engines to dig up records, and have very good record keeping in their towns and churches. 

Our Polish History. It is a very LONG story with many things unearthed. But our dive into our Polish history started in 2013 when my Dad got a call from his Cousin in Canada who said "Hey they are looking to find the owners of your grandmothers building in the Medevil Old town of Torun" (Unesco protected city), and btw, I have the document where your grandmother had signed it over to a communist management company in 1959. My father got a lawyer in Poland, and after a few years of legalities, we were able to reclaim that 700 year old building from the same communist management company that had been running it since the fall of communisum.

This is when we started to dig up all sorts of buried secrets. For instance.....that my father was actually born with a different Polish Name that he never mentioned!!! My father's War Hero dad died when he was 5. He only recalled the funeral where a Polish Military hat was on his casket, and many former military comrades came to pay their respects to him. He had heard rumors of a high medal given to him, but he never knew even a small part of that history. I found out all this stuff after my Dad had passed away....unfortunately. To add to the confusion of our Polish family history, my Dad (And his twin brother) always claimed to be German. He even had a German passport at one time before becoming a USA citizen. Perhaps he was caught up as a young child in the war when the Germans changed his name, language, and what he needed to do in order to be accepted as a refugee in Germany in 1945. Probably a lot of hidden baggage. I was quite shocked to find out, that when I took him to his hometown when he was in his 80's, he could understand and speak Polish no problem! Today, I would tease him to no end that it turns out that my Swiss Mother was actually more German than him!!

[Garrett]

Pete,

What an amazing genealogical journey you have had on both sides of the family! So many amazing things to research and dig into! If you don't mind me asking, what are you doing with your 700 year old building?? 

Also, does the funeral photo have your father in it?

Talk soon,

Garrett

[BKK]

Garrett,

Yes, one of those twin boys is my father. I am not sure which one. I might say the one facing the camera. That is my grandmother who left on 15 January 1945 and fled to Berlin and eventually Fulda Germany.

That building. Below is a pic around 1910 with my great grandparents, my grandmother (2nd girl in),and her siblings. Same building a few years ago. Now the store is a sushi place. We spent a number of years working thru restoration plans. It turns out the building is on the list of Polish National monuments, so the town is super strict on doing anything to it. All has to go through the town conservator. The place pays for itself with the store at the bottom. We are currently continuing to do renovations to the upper floors. Such a LONG story on this. We would need a few beers to cover it all

 

 

[Garrett]

Pete,

That is so cool! Im glad you were able to get it back!

I just finished reading The Fall of Berlin 1945 by Antony Beevor, that you recommended. From what my Oma can remember she thinks my Opa's mom packed up their suitcases and left Breslau in December of 1944. After reading this book I am glad they left when they did. It does not sound like it would have gone well for them if they had stayed even one more month. So many questions I would like to ask him about their journey!

Waiting on the other books in the mail!

Garrett