tomwardle Posted 12 February Share Posted 12 February Hello everyone. I am researching the life of a football coach who, according to a biographical newspaper piece, served in World War One. I have been largely unable to pinpoint any precise details about his life. His having a very common name does not help but I believe it was Jack E Burton. Also, bizarrely a lot of the footballing claims that he made in this newspaper biography are very difficult to prove and make me have suspicions about his reliability altogether. I am posting an excerpt from the newspaper about his time in World War One. (The piece is in Dutch). I am hoping that someone may help to direct me: "Immediately after the outbreak of war, Burton enlisted in the Third Regiment of Kings Own Hussars, who fought in France and was promoted to sergeant in the trenches near Mons. Jack Burton served in the various sectors. He took part in the famous retreat of Ayons, during the offensive he fought at Givenchy and La Bassé, places that every newspaper reader will remember from the war. At La Bassé a gas attack ended his military service. Unfit to continue fighting and discharged from the English army on September 13, 1915, Jack Burton still wanted to help his homeland by working in the munitions factories. The Mons Star Medal, Victory Medal and General Service Medal were awarded to Burton as a decoration for his gallantry.” The article also states that he was born on the 28th of June 1886 in Chelmsford, Essex but that he later moved to the Cardiff area. Other associated areas are Clacton-on-Sea, Croydon and Leicester. Would anyone be able to help me? Despite the very specific details, I have not been able to find any trace of him and I'm very much a novice at military research. I presume his medals (if genuine) would have been noteworthy. Indeed, a quick Google threw up these medals awarded to a Private J Burton (271149) in the Northumberland Yeomanry, apparently also referred to as Hussars. Am I barking up the wrong tree? https://www.cultmancollectables.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=21708 I appreciate that it is quite an unusual request but I would be really grateful for any help. Apologies, I meant to say 'Jack A Burton', not 'Jack E Burton' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February (edited) 6 hours ago, tomwardle said: Hello everyone. I am researching the life of a football coach who, according to a biographical newspaper piece, served in World War One. I have been largely unable to pinpoint any precise details about his life. His having a very common name does not help but I believe it was Jack E Burton. Also, bizarrely a lot of the footballing claims that he made in this newspaper biography are very difficult to prove and make me have suspicions about his reliability altogether. I am posting an excerpt from the newspaper about his time in World War One. (The piece is in Dutch). I am hoping that someone may help to direct me: "Immediately after the outbreak of war, Burton enlisted in the Third Regiment of Kings Own Hussars, who fought in France and was promoted to sergeant in the trenches near Mons. Jack Burton served in the various sectors. He took part in the famous retreat of Ayons, during the offensive he fought at Givenchy and La Bassé, places that every newspaper reader will remember from the war. At La Bassé a gas attack ended his military service. Unfit to continue fighting and discharged from the English army on September 13, 1915, Jack Burton still wanted to help his homeland by working in the munitions factories. The Mons Star Medal, Victory Medal and General Service Medal were awarded to Burton as a decoration for his gallantry.” The article also states that he was born on the 28th of June 1886 in Chelmsford, Essex but that he later moved to the Cardiff area. Other associated areas are Clacton-on-Sea, Croydon and Leicester. Would anyone be able to help me? Despite the very specific details, I have not been able to find any trace of him and I'm very much a novice at military research. I presume his medals (if genuine) would have been noteworthy. Indeed, a quick Google threw up these medals awarded to a Private J Burton (271149) in the Northumberland Yeomanry, apparently also referred to as Hussars. Am I barking up the wrong tree? https://www.cultmancollectables.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=21708 I appreciate that it is quite an unusual request but I would be really grateful for any help. Apologies, I meant to say 'Jack A Burton', not 'Jack E Burton' HI tomwardle. Private John, not Jack, Burton was first issued regimental number 1269, and disembarked in a Theatre of War, being France, on the 28/03/15 while serving in the Northumberland Hussars where he qualified for the 1914-1915 Star, not the 1914 'Mons Star' a different medal, as per the Dutch newspaper article. A Medal Index Card has been issued with these details. Oddly, a second Medal Index Card has been issued for Private John Burton number 271149 recording the award of the Victory Medal and British War Medal while serving with the Northumberland Yeomanry. The 1914-1915 Star Medal Roll is under typed number 271149 but has a hand written note above with 1269 so, barring any clerical errors, we can say that both numbers relate to the same soldier. See attached. In addition to the discrepancy in the article regarding the Star, Private John Burton 1269 / 271149 was still serving on the 02/12/19 recorded on the Victory Medal and British War Medal Roll. It 'maybe' the case the article is referring to a different soldier from 1269 / 271149. I hope this assists a little. Gunner Edited 13 February by Gunner 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwardle Posted 13 February Author Share Posted 13 February Thank you, that's truly helpful. I hope you don't mind me asking a few more questions: If this Jack Burton were working in a munitions factory from 1915, would they still be listed as serving in 1919? Do those details for their regiment line up? I don't know how specific it is to say "King's Own Hussars" Is there any way of reverse searching medal records? Ie finding all the John / Jack Burton to receive a medal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February (edited) 17 minutes ago, tomwardle said: Thank you, that's truly helpful. I hope you don't mind me asking a few more questions: If this Jack Burton were working in a munitions factory from 1915, would they still be listed as serving in 1919? Do those details for their regiment line up? I don't know how specific it is to say "King's Own Hussars" Is there any way of reverse searching medal records? Ie finding all the John / Jack Burton to receive a medal? It is very unlikely he would be shown as serving if he was working in a munitions factory. The kings Own Hussars is a different regiment to the Northumberland Hussars or Yeomanry. I've searched Ancestry and Find My Past looking for service papers, medical records or pension for 1269 / 271149 and found nothing. There are soldiers from Hussar regiments with the same surname which 'could' be the soldier in the article. I have also look at Find My Past Newspapers and found strong possibilities of a John Burton, the footballer. I will send you the medal records by pm. Edited 13 February by Gunner 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwardle Posted 13 February Author Share Posted 13 February Thank you, very kind. Before you waste your time, that was a different footballer I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February 2 minutes ago, tomwardle said: Thank you, very kind. Before you waste your time, that was a different footballer I believe. I've sent you over the medal records of 1269 / 271149 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February 12 hours ago, tomwardle said: Unfit to continue fighting and discharged from the English army on September 13, 1915 A search of the Silver War Badge registers for a Jack / John Burton with a discharge date of 13th September 1915 has failed to find anything. To me, this casts doubts to the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February 12 hours ago, tomwardle said: The article also states that he was born on the 28th of June 1886 in Chelmsford, Essex but that he later moved to the Cardiff area. Other associated areas are Clacton-on-Sea, Croydon and Leicester A search of parish records and civil birth registration records has failed to find a Jack / John Burton who was born in 1886 (I also searched 2 years either side of 1886). Likewise, a search of the 1891; 1901 and 1911 Census has failed to find anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February (edited) I think this article in the 'Essex County chronicle' Friday May 22, 1914 may be your Jack Burton looking at the locations mentioned. Image courtesy of Find My Past Newspapers Edited 13 February by Gunner 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February (edited) This article in the 'Wigan Observer and District Advertiser' Saturday <ay 13, 1916 could possibly be where the Dutch newspaper is getting its wires crossed. The piece mentions 'Jack Burton' as serving in the Lancashire Hussars and going out to France in 1914. Also in the 3rd Battalion, Worcestershire Regiment. Thought it maybe worth consideration. Image courtesy of Find My Past Newspapers Edited 13 February by Gunner 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwardle Posted 13 February Author Share Posted 13 February (edited) 6 hours ago, Allan1892 said: A search of parish records and civil birth registration records has failed to find a Jack / John Burton who was born in 1886 (I also searched 2 years either side of 1886). Likewise, a search of the 1891; 1901 and 1911 Census has failed to find anything. Very bizarre, no? Like I say, I have some suspicions that he may have been lying in whatever interview he gave. Thank you for your help. Edited 13 February by tomwardle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwardle Posted 13 February Author Share Posted 13 February 5 hours ago, Gunner 87 said: I think this article in the 'Essex County chronicle' Friday May 22, 1914 may be your Jack Burton looking at the locations mentioned. Image courtesy of Find My Past Newspapers Thank you. Sadly, I think it's going down the wrong track. There was indeed a Jack Burton who played for Cardiff City but I think it's a different one. That Jack Burton is different to this one I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February 51 minutes ago, tomwardle said: Thank you. Sadly, I think it's going down the wrong track. There was indeed a Jack Burton who played for Cardiff City but I think it's a different one. That Jack Burton is different to this one I'm sure. Thanks tom. I note though the Jack in the link can't be the same man as in the Dutch article as he was still playing for WHU in October and November 1915.... Let me know if I can help further, I have Ancestry, Pension Records through the Western Front Association and Find My Past. Gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwardle Posted 21 June Author Share Posted 21 June Hello again. Picking this up once more! Could you help me with this please? https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0004604/19311023/225/0014 On 13/02/2024 at 18:42, Gunner 87 said: Thanks tom. I note though the Jack in the link can't be the same man as in the Dutch article as he was still playing for WHU in October and November 1915.... Let me know if I can help further, I have Ancestry, Pension Records through the Western Front Association and Find My Past. Gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 22 June Share Posted 22 June 16 hours ago, tomwardle said: Hello again. Picking this up once more! Could you help me with this please? https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0004604/19311023/225/0014 Hi tom. I only have Find My Past newspapers so your link isn't taking me to the right place. Gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwardle Posted 24 June Author Share Posted 24 June On 22/06/2024 at 14:03, Gunner 87 said: Hi tom. I only have Find My Past newspapers so your link isn't taking me to the right place. Gunner Hi Gunner. It's from Streatham News, 23/10/1931, and it says something like 'Amsterdam F.C. During his stay - with the latter ... won five cups and league championships' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwardle Posted 24 June Author Share Posted 24 June It's here: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-viewer?issue=BL/0004604/19311023&page=0014&article=225&stringtohighlight=jack burton amsterdam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwardle Posted 26 June Author Share Posted 26 June I actually got access in the end. Just what I was looking for! I'm not convinced it was his real name. Is there any way to search military records? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July On 26/06/2024 at 22:34, tomwardle said: I actually got access in the end. Just what I was looking for! I'm not convinced it was his real name. Is there any way to search military records? Full page sent over by pm...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijs Tummers Posted 10 August Share Posted 10 August I am studying the football coach Jack Burton, especially his days in the Netherlands. I have the same trouble as you. I think he is spreading unreliable data about his careeer, which was not uncommon in these days; who could check it? He was indeed coach of AFC (Amsterdamsche Football Club) in 1922, but only for four months, his spell at the club was not a succes. So the information that he won 5 cups and league championships with the latter is, to say the least, not correct. Hij had more succes at Stormvogels from IJmuiden where he was coach from Dec 1922 till Dec 1923, the club got promoted in the season 22-23 to the highest league.. In 1924-25 he was trainer of Karlsruher FV in Germany, in 1925-26 for a couple of months Hamburger SV and in 1926-27 KFC Phonix also from Karlsruhe. In the season 1921-22 he coached Athletic Bilbao for 4 matches. That's all I know for sure. If you have a more complete record of his life, please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin GWF TEAM Posted 11 August Admin Share Posted 11 August 9 hours ago, Tijs Tummers said: I am studying the football coach Jack Burton, especially his days in the Netherlands. Welcome to the GWF As the name suggests this Forum is concerned with research into the Great War, or that period of history from 1914 to 1921 The period you are researching is outside his participation in that conflict. We suggest you use the GWF PM system for further research Simply click on the name of the member you wish to contact and open the dialog box 'message' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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