Pte EJ padbury

[Amylloyd]

I am also looking for information on a gentleman served in WW1, also in possession of his trio. Service numbers available to me 

s/10852 and L/11576

east Kent regiment 

company number WO 329 

 

any information is greatly received! 

[mancpal]

Amy,

take a look at the Long Long Trail (link above) for information on researching soldiers. 
WO 329 isn’t his company number by the way.

Simon

[Allan1892]

His entry for the 1914/15 Star shows that he entered Theatre of War 1 (France and Flanders) disembarking on the 12th July 1915.

His entry in the BWM & VM medal rolls shows that he served as S/10852 with the 1st Battalion and then the 1/5th Battalion finally serving as L/11576 East Kent Regiment

[PRC]

1 hour ago, Allan1892 said:

His entry in the BWM & VM medal rolls shows that he served as S/10852 with the 1st Battalion and then the 1/5th Battalion finally serving as L/11576 East Kent Regiment

Interesting and hope someone more more knowledgeable comes alone to clarify.

S prefixes generally I understand were used for war time enlistees on duration of the war terms - but in the case of the East Kents they used a G prefix instead. Having said which I've just done a search of the Commonwealth War Graves Commisson website and it has 253 individuals who died while serving with The Buffs (East Kent Regiment) and who had an S\ prefix to their service number.

To quote from Paul Nixons' website "By the time 10247 joined The Buffs, Britain had been at war with Germany for nearly three weeks and volunteers throughout Britain had been flocking to recruiting offices. The Buffs did not extend the number series above to men joining its new service battalions. Those volunteers who enlisted for war-time service only, were issued with numbers from a new series which began at 1 and was prefixed with G/. Men who, during the war, continued to enlist under regular 7&5 terms, were issued with numbers in continuation of the series above. Their numbers were prefixed with the letter L/.

Thus, for example, L/10356 joined up for seven years with the colours and five on the reserve, on 13th December 1914. Had he joined up for war-time service only, his number would have been in the high 4000s or low 5000s and would have been prefixed with G/." https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/11/buffs-east-kent-regt-1st-2nd-battalions.html

Which then of course knocks on to the circumstances in which service number L/11576 was issued to him. If he was posted to the 5th Battalion before early 1917 he would have received a four digit service number with them as they were part of the Territorial Force, usually prefixed with a Battalion number, so 5/xxxx. He would then have been issued with a six digit number during the Territorial Force renumbering - the 5th Battalion were allocated the number range 240001 to 265000. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-the-tf-infantry-in-1917/

If he joined the Battalion from elsewhere in the Regiment after the renumbering and had service number S/10852 he would have kept it.  If he joined from another Regiment he would have been allocated a new servicel number from that number block - but it wouldn't have been L/11576. To my mind that raises the possibility he might have re-enlisted on Regular Terms after the war - a possible explanation for why there doesn't appears to be any service records for him on the likes of FindMyPast or Ancestry - although with one small caveat!

FindMyPast have something indexed as a service record for 10852 E.J. Padbury. Given the paucity of indexed information - I don't subscribe so can't see the document - I suspect it's one of their "one pagers" that mentions him that has been salvaged from another man's records. Quite often these are casualty lists \ daily part two orders and the like.

I'm not readily spotting anything for him in the published casualty lists, but those aren't the easiest documents to search. I've also done a search of the list that was published by the Ministry of Defence a few years back which claimed to show all the records they still held for those born before the end of 1900. I couldn't find him, but the list is now known to be far from complete.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 22 June by PRC
Add correct weblink

[Allan1892]

2 hours ago, PRC said:

FindMyPast have something indexed as a service record for 10852 E.J. Padbury. Given the paucity of indexed information - I don't subscribe so can't see the document - I suspect it's one of their "one pagers" that mentions him that has been salvaged from another man's records. Quite often these are casualty lists \ daily part two orders and the like.

Image courtesy of Find My Past

[PRC]

Looks like he was still using the same service number in October 1918 as he had when he went out to France in July 1915. That tells us that his posting to the 1/5th Battalion occurred after the Territorial Force renumbering at the start of 1917. It also places him in Mesopotamia, where the 1/5th Battalion were serving. Finally ups the likelihood that he took a Regular Army enlistment post-war and hence the L prefixed service number. That may have been only one-year or two-years, rather than twelve. But if he served after 1920 then very likely that his records were retained by the Ministry of Defence in a different location, and so weren’t in the London Warehouse that was bombed out in the blitz.They may well be part of the current massive transfer of other ranks records that is going on between the MoD and the National Archive.

Short of placing and paying for a Freedom of Information request to get a copy – it the record does still exist - there are potentially a few more things that can be fleshed out.

So as a non-paying subscriber looking at a very quick \ very dirty near number search around  s/10852 :-

S/10847 Edward Bradshaw. FMP have something indexed as a Service Record, starting in 1914 and showing him born Deptford c1896. FMP then also have something indexed as a Service Record, “starting” in 1919 and showing him born Deptford c1897. Family search does not have the records online, but does index a little bit more information . The 1914 records are from the burnt series, (WO363), and show him born and resident Deptford. The 1919 records are also from the burnt series. Ancestry have one set indexed as Service records and the other as Pension Records.

S/10848 Henry William Wiltshire. FMP have something indexed as a Service Record, starting in 1914 and showing him born Tottenham c1897. Familysearch shows them coming from the burnt series. Ancestry have them indexed as Service records.

S/10856 Thomas Archibald Grant Styles. Soldiers Died in the Great War shows his service number as S/10856. His entry on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website is just under 10856 and he died on the 19th April 1916 serving in France & Flanders with the 8th Battalion. FindMyPast has a service record under the 10856 service number, but they are shown starting in 1914 and that Thomas was born Portsmouth c1893. Familysearch shows them coming from the burnt series. Ancestry have them indexed as Service records.

Hopefully from those three it should be possible to bracket the likely date when E.J. Padbury enlisted and uncover the very early stages of his army career.

The 1st Battalion were part of the 6th Division, and had landed in France on the 10th September 1914. As E.J. Padbury didn’t go out to France until July 1915 he would have done all his training with another unit – probably a home service training unit like the 3rd Battalion – but hopefully those three surviving records can give a clue.

He won’t have been transferred straight from the 1st Battalion to the 1/5th or sent directly from France to Mesoptamia. The most likely scenario is that he was medically evacuated to the UK as a result of ill-health or accidental injuries – until an entry turns up in the official casualty list we would need to rule out combat wounds. Back in the UK he would come off the strength of the 1st Battalion and be administratively transferred onto the strength of the Regimental Depot while he received in-patient treatment and convalesced. On recovery he’d report to the Depot, be transferred to a Home Service Battalion - probably the 3rd or the 9th as he would then retain the same service number. There he’d be retrained – mainly physical – and assessed for fitness for further service, either in the frontline, or rear-area overseas, or UK only, or whether he should be discharged. I found fit he be held for the next draft to be sent overseas.

Our parent site has this on the 1/5th Battalion, (and ignore the caption to the picture of troops of the Battalion as that location was in Mesopotamia, not Palestine).

1/5th (Weald of Kent) Battalion

August 1914 : in Ashford. Part of Kent Brigade, Home Counties Division. 29 October 1914 : to India. The Division was broken up on arrival in Bombay. Joined Jubbulpore Brigade in 5th (Mhow) Division. November 1915 to 35th Brigade in 7th (Meerut) Division in Mesopotamia. Brigade moved to 14th (Indian) Division in May 1916.
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/buffs-east-kent-regiment/

And this on the 14th Indian Division.
The 14th Indian Division was formed in Mesopotamia in 12 May 1916, based on three infantry brigades that had already seen action in the unsuccessful effort to relieve the besieged garrison of Kut-al-Amara.

The division is recognised as participating in the following actions:

    The advance to the Hai and capture of the Khudaira Bend (14 December 1916 – 19 January 1917, under III Corps)

    The capture of the Hai salient (25 January – 5 February 1917, same)

    The capture of the Dahra Bend (9 – 16 February 1917, same)

    The capture of Sannaiyat (17 – 24 February 1917, same)

    The passage of the Tigris (23-24 February 1917, same)

    The passage of the Adhaim (18 April 1917, 35th Brigade only, same)

    Action of Ahaim (30 April 1917, 35th Brigade only, same)

    Second Action of Jabal Hamrin (16-20 October 1917, same).

    Third Action of Jabal Hamrin (3-6 December 1917, same).

The division remained in the theatre after war but was soon broken up.
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/14th-indian-division/

Here’s a link to that picture on the Imperial War Museum website https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205091119

War diaries for units serving in Mesopotamia can currently be downloaded for free from the National Archive. You do need to sign in with your account, but if you don’t have one, even that can be set up as part of placing your first order. Just click on “sign-in” on any page of the online catalogue and follow the instructions – no financial details are requested.

The relevant pages of the Catalogue for the 1/5th Battalion War Diary are:-
December 1915 to December 1917: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/e9a5d9bca98b44ebb638c1614f084246
January 1918 to March 1919: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/112753a42ea142e7a44892d0087faf55
April 1919 to October 1919: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/0ea2c084d9f34d29b12d31b46e334512

Very unlikely to mention him by name, but will give some idea of where they were and what they were up to.

A near number search for service number L/11576 is a bit low on service records – again a possible indicator these men stayed in the army in peacetime, and so the only reason the L prefix number is on the card is to help the records officer clerk track down the file, which would still be being actively updated.

L/11562 William Henry Harvey does however have something indexed on FindMyPast as a Service record. The indexing includes that he was born Shadforth, Durham,c1899 and that they relate to 1920. Familysearch has split it into two – it’s a burnt series record showing him as 14844 in 1919, and L/11562 in 1920.Ancestry shows it as a Service record.

I’m not spotting any E \ E.J. Padbury’s indexed by FindMyPast as still in the Army on the 1921 Census of England & Wales, but even without a typo there could be lots or reasons for that. There is also an absence of potential candidates in that census who could have got away with enlisting in 1914, but again lots of potential explanations for that.

Cheers,
Peter