tjalexander Posted 4 July Share Posted 4 July Hi, im looking for help with regards to the movement of 2nd Black Watch. I’m trying to do some research into a family member Pte Archibald Alexander who was lost on Sept 25th at the Battle of Loos. Any regimental or company information would be hugely appreciated. thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 4 July Admin Share Posted 4 July https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7356139 War diaries here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbem Posted 4 July Share Posted 4 July If you subscribe to Ancestry UK, World War I War Diaries (France, Belgium and Germany), 1914-1920 - Ancestry.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeesown Posted 4 July Share Posted 4 July These maps are from " A History Of The Black Watch " May be a wee help to you. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjalexander Posted 4 July Author Share Posted 4 July This was ridiculously helpful! We thought he was much closer to Loos so this helped , thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 4 July Admin Share Posted 4 July This was part of a diversionary attack although comes under the umbrella of Loos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lang Posted 6 July Share Posted 6 July I have a transcription of the 2nd Bn Black Watch War Diary for September, 1915. It is spread over many pages, but I have compressed these into 20 pages for the purposes of the transcription. Included with the original pages (courtesy TNA) are 2 Hand-Drawn Sketch Maps. I'll post these here separately, as they are very helpful to understand the references in the actual text of the WD. I'll then post my transcription files in 2 posts of 10 (to try to reduce space). It is necessary to the see operations before and after the operations of the 25th Sept 1915. I hope this helps. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lang Posted 6 July Share Posted 6 July Here is my first 10 pages (compressed text) of the 2nd Bn BLACK WATCH War Diary for the month of September 1915. Here is my second 10 pages (compressed text) of the 2nd Bn BLACK WATCH War Diary for the month of September 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 7 July Share Posted 7 July Be very careful with map references in your excellently transcribed war diary. Some reports of this time still used the 1914 system of squaring, as the Adjutant may still not have had new maps. The battle of Loos was still in the transition period to the "Revised System of Squaring" as printed in the margin. That is the system used across the great majority of British maps and is what is used in TrenchMapper. It means that you may need corroboration with point names etc. to see if a map reference uses the old or new system. It can get confusing! Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lang Posted 7 July Share Posted 7 July (edited) 3 hours ago, Howard said: Be very careful with map references in your excellently transcribed war diary. Some reports of this time still used the 1914 system of squaring, as the Adjutant may still not have had new maps. The battle of Loos was still in the transition period to the "Revised System of Squaring" as printed in the margin. That is the system used across the great majority of British maps and is what is used in TrenchMapper. It means that you may need corroboration with point names etc. to see if a map reference uses the old or new system. It can get confusing! Howard Thanks Howard for that information. But a 'transcription' is intended as an 'exact' (or as near as possible) transfer of the original. The Map References in my transcription are as originally written. That's why I posted the 2 Sketch Maps from the WD to refer to those in the transcription. It is not for a transcription to delve into the 'history of mapping'. I can only write what's there in the original, without alteration. Tom. Edited 7 July by Tom Lang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 7 July Share Posted 7 July I think we are at cross purposes, nothing to do with transcriptions. My point is that M.2.a.7.5 in the old system is not the same place on the ground as M.2.a.7.5 in the revised system. The grid shifted and changed its lettering. That is compounded by some Revised System of Squaring maps having the grid shifted in error by 150 yards in latitude, the worst cases are sheet 36C for the Battle of Loos. If you look at TrenchMapper Help->Knowledge Centre->How to read a trench map, at the bottom of that page is the old system. This has caught out a number of people over the years because what looks like a "revised" map reference actually refers to older maps. You cannot tell from just a reference which is which, so if a narrative does not seem to fit the ground, that may be the reason. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lang Posted 7 July Share Posted 7 July (edited) 27 minutes ago, Howard said: I think we are at cross purposes, nothing to do with transcriptions. My point is that M.2.a.7.5 in the old system is not the same place on the ground as M.2.a.7.5 in the revised system. The grid shifted and changed its lettering. That is compounded by some Revised System of Squaring maps having the grid shifted in error by 150 yards in latitude, the worst cases are sheet 36C for the Battle of Loos. If you look at TrenchMapper Help->Knowledge Centre->How to read a trench map, at the bottom of that page is the old system. This has caught out a number of people over the years because what looks like a "revised" map reference actually refers to older maps. You cannot tell from just a reference which is which, so if a narrative does not seem to fit the ground, that may be the reason. Howard Howard, If you'll allow me, I think it is you who are at "cross-purposes". You are 'translating' a Map Reference, whereas I'm 'transcribing' it. It is NOT for me to alter the original (and intended) use of the Map References, NOR to go into some 'History of Maps'. I provided copies of the 'original' Maps to which the transcription refers. The reader can discover this for him/herself if so inclined. Tom. Edited 7 July by Tom Lang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lang Posted 7 July Share Posted 7 July On 04/07/2024 at 04:44, dundeesown said: These maps are from " A History Of The Black Watch " May be a wee help to you. Gary @Howard may I refer you to the maps previously posted by @dundeesown They are much clearer than those in the WD. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 7 July Share Posted 7 July 2 hours ago, Tom Lang said: Howard, If you'll allow me, I think it is you who are at "cross-purposes". You are 'translating' a Map Reference, whereas I'm 'transcribing' it. It is NOT for me to alter the original (and intended) use of the Map References, NOR to go into some 'History of Maps'. I provided copies of the 'original' Maps to which the transcription refers. The reader can discover this for him/herself if so inclined. Tom. I was simply trying to be helpful to anyone who may use the information, not everyone realises the problem with early maps. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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