Researching events 19 September 1916 - Royal Welsh Fusiliers

[Mark D]

I'm researching events that led to my great uncle John Edward Hanums (Pte 33436) being seriously injured (loss of legs or that may have happened after the injury) on 19 September 1916. He died when I was quite young, and I have very little information and no family left to find out what happened to him. All I know is that he was born in Shrewsbury in 1896/7 and enlisted in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers, 2nd Battalion, I think. Does anyone have any information on what may have taken place that day or can point me in the right direction? Could it have been in the region of Mametz Woods? None of the service records I've found online provide any detail as to what happened or where he may have been treated, etc. Much appreciated.

Edited 11 July by Bob Davies
2016 changed to 1916.

[mancpal]

Mark,

the National Archives should have the war diary for the 2nd RWF. After registering you will be able to download their war diary ( both steps being free of charge). 
This will give you day by day reports of what they were up to on any given date. The content varies from diary to diary and depends on the officer tasked to complete them. With some you only get “in trenches” while others will be more informative. If your relative was an OR he is unlikely to be mentioned by name. Brigade diaries could help more in a broader picture in that they won’t be RWF specific but will give an overall picture of which units they fought alongside etc.
If you can tell us everything you know of him it may assist other members help you with your search, it can be frustrating looking into a specific item only to find the person asking the question is already in possession of that detail. 
Good luck with your quest.

Simon

Edited 11 July by mancpal

[Mark D]

Thank you, that's very helpful. This is really all I know, though, apart from things like names of his siblings. No wife or children. I'll have a look at the war diaries as you suggest. Many thanks.

[charlie962]

The Silver War Badge Roll tells us he enlisted 6/9/15 and was discharged (wounds) 7/8/17.

[mancpal]

Mark, 

non military info can be as helpful in forming a comprehensive picture of the man. Parents/siblings names, any addresses, civilian occupation and the like can if nothing else rule out spurious candidates of a similar name. 
He should have a medal index card listing his medal entitlement though I haven’t looked yet.

Simon
 

[charlie962]

56 minutes ago, Mark D said:

being seriously injured (loss of legs or that may have happened after the injury) on 19 September 1916

That was the publication date. His actual wounding was perhaps 4-5 weeks earlier

[mancpal]

Mark,

his awarded medals were the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. This means he didn’t serve in a theatre of war prior to 1/1/16 (otherwise he would have been entitled to one of the star medals). The only other detail is that of his SWB roll which Charlie has referenced above.

Simon

[Bernard_Lewis]

For background reading see:

The War the Infantry Knew (Dunn).

Old Soldiers Never Die (Richards).

Goodbye to All That (Graves).

Memoirs of an Infantry Officer (Sassoon).

Duty Done (Langdon).

 

The 2 RWF was well blessed with authors!

Bernard 

 

[charlie962]

Here's the listing in The Times of 19/9/16. Battalions,are not indicated but one of the otgerscin that list might be a 2nd Bn man and have a Service Record that gives a clue to actual date of wounding. From there to the War Diary to see what was going on.

[Mark D]

1 minute ago, charlie962 said:

Here's the listing in The Times of 19/9/16. Battalions,are not indicated but one of the otgerscin that list might be a 2nd Bn man and have a Service Record that gives a clue to actual date of wounding. From there to the War Diary to see what was going on.

Great, thank you. Just got hold of the war diary. Got some digging to do...

[Howard]

1 hour ago, Mark D said:

I'm researching events that led to my great uncle John Edward Hanums (Pte 33436) being seriously injured (loss of legs or that may have happened after the injury) on 19 September 1916. He died when I was quite young, and I have very little information and no family left to find out what happened to him. All I know is that he was born in Shrewsbury in 1896/7 and enlisted in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers, 2nd Battalion, I think. Does anyone have any information on what may have taken place that day or can point me in the right direction? Could it have been in the region of Mametz Woods? None of the service records I've found online provide any detail as to what happened or where he may have been treated, etc. Much appreciated.

It is worth reading a classic of Great War books, The War the Infantry Knew 1914-1919, by J.C. Dunn

J.C. Dunn was a doctor with 2 RWF and describes in detail what went on and where. It makes a good adjunct to the war diary that tends to be very matter of fact.

He may well have treated John Edward.

Howard

 

 

[Mark D]

1 minute ago, Howard said:

It is worth reading a classic of Great War books, The War the Infantry Knew 1914-1919, by J.C. Dunn

J.C. Dunn was a doctor with 2 RWF and describes in detail what went on and where. It makes a good adjunct to the war diary that tends to be very matter of fact.

He may well have treated John Edward.

Howard

 

 

Yes, I saw that, thanks. Was about to order a copy off Amazon.

[mancpal]

Mark,

A small tip, Howard who has just posted above is a dab hand with maps. When you are a little nearer with a likely location of his injury it may be that he can help with relevant trench maps and better still they can be overlaid onto current satellite imagery meaning that should you choose to visit the battlefields it’s likely you will be able to find the place of his wounding pretty accurately.

Simon

[Mark D]

Thanks everyone. The diaries are both fascinating and grim reading.

I'm visiting the area in the next few weeks. A relative died at 19, further north (Service number: 12433. Lance Corporal Ernest Ruscoe), King's Shropshire Light Infantry, on 12 February 1916. 6th Bn. I know his memorial is at Artillery Wood so will explore that region and then hopefully head to where John Hanums was injured. I'm hoping to see the memorial (dragon) that's in the area. 

As with everything, I wish I'd asked my family about the details when they were alive. I have a photograph of John Hanums in a wheel chair, but that's it. He died in '67.

As a matter of interest, I started out on this journey because I inherited a KSLI 'swagger stick' from my grandfather (brother to Ernest Ruscoe of KSLI). I was surprised to hear though that these were probably not given to Lance corporals, only higher ranks. So how this ended up in the family is anyone's guess. It's a nice cane with silver head and KSLI insignia on top. One of my most treasure possessions.

[mancpal]

Mark,

the dragon memorial facing Mametz Wood is a fine monument, it somehow portrays to me defiance. 
Many years ago I was walking along the lane just beneath it when I spotted a small piece of corrugated iron in a patch of scrub. It bears both bullet holes and circular indentations (shrapnel balls). It isn’t much bigger than A4 but has a number of each, thus indicating the intensity of fire aimed at the Welsh Division. I hope you enjoy your visit.

Simon

[Howard]

10 hours ago, Mark D said:

Thanks everyone. The diaries are both fascinating and grim reading.
 

Having looked at a lot of diaries recently, I would suggest you look at the brigade diary and the divisional diary, as well as other battalions in the same brigade. The clarity of what went on and the level of detail varies a lot between diaries, which at the best of times, can be confusing.

Howard

[Howard]

1 hour ago, mancpal said:

Mark,

the dragon memorial facing Mametz Wood is a fine monument, it somehow portrays to me defiance. 
Many years ago I was walking along the lane just beneath it when I spotted a small piece of corrugated iron in a patch of scrub. It bears both bullet holes and circular indentations (shrapnel balls). It isn’t much bigger than A4 but has a number of each, thus indicating the intensity of fire aimed at the Welsh Division. I hope you enjoy your visit.

Simon

Whenever I visit the dragon, one thing always shocks me despite prior knowledge. The size of the area. One reads of whole battalion or brigade actions and the importance of the Queen's Nullah but when you get there.......its tiny.

Howard