D Battery 124th brigade RFA circa august 1917

[Mark7834]

Hello, does anyone have any information for the mentioned above, a relation was killed on 20/08/1917 buried in bailleul nord. Just wondering if anyone has any info on positions etc around that date.

 

thank you

[mancpal]

Mark,

do you have a service number for him? This would appear on the rim/reverse of any WW1 medals he was awarded, equally on any correspondence of the era would usually contain it. 
The NA are currently offering free downloads of war diaries which may tell you more. 
Of course a name would be useful to members intent on assisting you. 
Because he served with the RFA doesn’t always mean he started his military career with them.

Simon

[Mark7834]

Hi Simon this is all the info I have on him, and also a picture of him on horseback which I believe was taken at Woolwich 

[Matlock1418]

Mark, Welcome to the GWF.

Medal index card = 1914-15 Star, BWM & VM

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

M

[Mark7834]

Ah brilliant thanks for that really appreciate it

[Matlock1418]

Pension index card

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

William Henry MATTHEWS, 78280, Royal Field Artillery

Confirms the Died of W on the MIC

21 1c refers to an article in the the Royal Warrant covering dependants' pensions.

The 1918 RW would apply at the date of award but it looks like the paperwork was rec'd 3.3.19 and somehow the later 1919 RW used / which explains that 21 1c means for the parent(s) of an unmarried soldier a pension of 5/- pw will be paid irrespective of pre-war dependance, age, infirmity or pecuniary need, provided the soldier was under the age of 26 at the outbreak of war, or date of joining the colours if later.

M

Edited 27 July by Matlock1418
name etc to allow for searches

[Mark7834]

Thanks M much appreciated, my father said thanks a lot 

[Matlock1418]

Now worth looking out for entries in:

• Soldiers Died in the Great War - for place of enlistment
• Register of Soldiers' Effects - for effects [monies] and War Gratuity [may help with enlistment date] and which may also show if a will was used to distribute them [look out for 'Legatee' - though I haven't yet spotted a Will at the Probate Service]

M

Edit: Forgot to mention he might have a published entry in a Casualty List

Edited 26 July by Matlock1418
edit

[Matlock1418]

The War Graves Photographic Project have a photo of his headstone

https://www.twgpp.org/photograph/view/2330144 

M

[Matlock1418]

Worth looking in local newspapers for an obituary/death notice and possibly a photo. 

Sometimes you might also get extra lucky and get something from an earlier date - various reasons for a newspaper to publish as the social media of the day!

Of course we would love to see his face etc. in the on horseback photo you have already mentioned  ... Please.

M

[Matlock1418]

I wonder if @David Porter might perhaps be able to help with the RFA side of things, please.

M

[mancpal]

Mark,

as suggested in my initial reply the more you post about your subject the better the response. This includes ruling out men of similar details which may lead you down a dead end. 
I’d imagine you are pleased with the results so far and I suspect there will be more to come. Good luck with your search.

Simon

[PRC]

2 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Soldiers Died in the Great War - for place of enlistment

Died of Wounds - born Haresfield, Gloucestershire, enlisted Bristol.

3 hours ago, Mark7834 said:

a relation was killed on 20/08/1917 buried in bailleul nord

He was buried in the Communal Cemetery Extension. The Commonwealth War Graves Commission website page for the Cemetery has this under it's history - "Bailleul was occupied on 14 October 1914 by the 19th Brigade and the 4th Division. It became an important railhead, air depot and hospital centre, with the 2nd, 3rd, 8th, 11th, 53rd, 1st Canadian and 1st Australian Casualty Clearing Stations quartered in it for considerable periods. It was a Corps headquarters until July 1917, when it was severely bombed and shelled, and after the Battle of Bailleul (13-15 April 1918), it fell into German hands and was not retaken until 30 August 1918.

The earliest Commonwealth burials at Bailleul were made at the east end of the communal cemetery and in April 1915, when the space available had been filled, the extension was opened on the east side of the cemetery." https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/2000048/bailleul-communal-cemetery-extension-nord/

There is a slight chance that the information in his entry in the Register of Soldiers Effects, (available on Ancestry & Fold3) will confirm which of those medical facilities he died in. War Diaries will be available and while they probably won't mention him by name it's always worth a look. It may possibly give you some idea of when he might have been admitted.

The 124th Brigade (aka CXXIV Brigade) were posted to the 37th Brigade while that was still in the UK. The Division assembled in France betwen the 22nd July 1915 and the 2nd August 1915. With the MiC showing Gunner Matthews landing in France on the 30th July 1915 that probably indicates he deployed overseas with his unit. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/37th-division/

War diaries for units fighting in France & Flanders can currently be downloaded for free from the UK National Archive. You do need to sign in with your account, but if you don't have one even that can be set up as part of placing your first order. Just click on "sign in" on any page of the online catalogue and follow the instructions - no financial details are requested.

The relevant page of the catalogue covering the Brigade War Diary from July 1915 to March 1919 can be found here:- https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354060

While again it's not likely to mention him by name, it may indicate the circumstances in which the Batteries of the Brigade took casualties.

Cheers,
Peter

[Mark7834]

10 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Worth looking in local newspapers for an obituary/death notice and possibly a photo. 

Sometimes you might also get extra lucky and get something from an earlier date - various reasons for a newspaper to publish as the social media of the day!

Of course we would love to see his face etc. in the on horseback photo you have already mentioned  ... Please.

M

Hi M appreciate what you found, here is a picture of William at Woolwich 

[David Porter]

SDGW gives enlistment in Bristol. I cannot work out exactly when as the number was issued twice, once in July 1914 and again in January 1915. I'm wondering why there grounds for a claim for the 1914 Star. His arrival in France coincides with 124th Brigade RFA. The Gloucester Journal of September 1, 1917 says he received his wounds on August 17, 1917. The Effects Register gives 53rd CCS as the place of death three days later.

Image courtesy Findmypast (newspapers)

[Mark7834]

2 minutes ago, David Porter said:

SDGW gives enlistment in Bristol. I cannot work out exactly when as the number was issued twice, once in July 1914 and again in January 1915. I'm wondering why there grounds for a claim for the 1914 Star. His arrival in France coincides with 124th Brigade RFA. The Gloucester Journal of September 1, 1917 says he received his wounds on August 17, 1917. The Effects Register gives 53rd CCS as the place of death three days later.

Image courtesy Findmypast (newspapers)

Brilliant thanks david

[PRC]

If it's any help the 53rd Casualty Clearing Station War Diary for the period can be found in the National Archive catalogue here https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/6edd10141344497788d5fc122eda6030

Cheers,
Peter

[Peter Secco]

Mark

My grandfather Roderick William McNeill (Gunner, RFA 39960) was likely in D/124 Battery with your relation. Whilst there is no service record existing for him, over the past few years I've been writing a story on his life, and from postcards he sent to my grandmother from the front, great GWS Forum pals' answers to my queries and other research the extract below is part of that story during the period your grandfather died at the front.

Roddie likely started off in the 126 (Howitzer) Brigade and it landed in France on the same day as 124th. With re-organisations of the artillery brigades over time he likely ended up in the 124th. He was originally a regular in the 128th Howitzer Battery from Dec 1905 to 1908, came to Australia in May 1914 and then was called up as a Reservist, and landed back in London in Feb 1915. He was injured in September 1917 and gassed in April 1918, then from October 1918 to November 1918 was on garrison duties in Jubbulpore, India. He came to Australia in early 1920 with my grandfather and their eldest child. He died at the relatively young age of 50 in 1937.

Anyways, here is the extract for the short period around the time of your relation's demise:

"In late July, the 37^th cooperated with the 14^th and 19^th Divisions Artillery and the 3^rd Australian Divisional Artillery in a raid on the enemy near Beek Farm with their headquarters back at Dranoutre near Wytschaete. On 20 July, first reports were received of mustard gas being used by the enemy and 2^nd Lieutenant W. Pilkington of A/123 Battery was gassed after a continuous barrage by the enemy on its position with 10 other ranks also being wounded by the gas. Casualties during July were two Officers wounded and 3 killed and ten wounded in ‘other ranks` in the 124^th, whilst there was no mention of casualties in the 123^rd.

The Brigades seemed to be regularly working together with Australian forces now, as the war diaries record that they were relieved by the 10^th and 11^th AFA Brigades, 4^th Division, 2 Anzac Corps on the night of 8 August.  Just before then however, on 5 August 1917, A/124 battery had to be withdrawn from the line before planned as a result of an outbreak of dysentery and all the personnel had to be isolated. It was able to come back into the line on 27 August 1917. Fighting continued with rolling barrages being implemented in an effort by the brigade to push the enemy back from its lines. On 17 August 1917, B Battery of 124 Brigade had one gun damaged by an enemy shell and D Battery (where Roddie was likely placed) had one gun destroyed by a direct hit with three gunners wounded. The constant shelling of one section of D Battery over the previous few days led to it being finally moved to a safer position on 19 August 1917.

On the night of 27 August 1917, the artillery supported an attempted raid by the 11^th Royal Warwickshire infantry battalion to try and destroy enemy concrete structures in the enemy’s trenches. This failed however due to the time limit and the fact that the ground was so heavy and water-logged that the men could not get out of a walk. There were minor casualties but they managed to capture three prisoners. The 123^rd was certainly in action throughout the month as there were substantial casualties incurred, sufficient in numbers for the war diary of the Commander of the Artillery for the whole of the 37^th to record, for a change, the names of those killed and wounded. As for casualties, even though A battery was out of action for a considerable part of the month, the 124^th still had four men killed in action and eight wounded whilst the 123^rd finished with two killed, 3 died of wounds and three wounded.

Of note during this month, was that the war diary mentions that 2^nd Lieutenant D.F. McMath (David Fyfe McMath) of D/124 battery was awarded the Military Cross (M.C.) for conspicuous gallantry on 31^st July at Wytschaete."

Re my reference above to the 37th Div. Artillery re names of wounded/killed, I've just checked for your relation in the War Diary but unfortunately the list of casualties stops at the 10th August. It looks as though a page is missing for the rest of the month. 

Hope the above helps a bit and good luck with your endeavours.

By the way, great picture of him.

Peter