Pvt William Colborn 1st battalion Gloucestershire regiment

[Mark7834]

Morning all, I've already had a brilliant response finding out about 1 relation, just seeing if there's any info on my great great uncles, see attached image, he died of wounds early on in the war. Thanks for any help. Everything on there is all I have.

 

Thanks for any help, it's all really appreciated.

[Michelle Young]

War diaries are here

3 Infantry Brigade: 1 Battalion Gloucestershire Regiment. | The National Archives

William has no known grave and is remembered on the Le Touret memorial, panel 17.

[Mark7834]

Thanks for the link Michelle that's brilliant 

[PRC]

William is a bit of an anomaly - well at least for me

Paul Nixon's Army Service Number website has the Regular Army Battalions of the Gloucestershire Regiment, (the 1st and 2nd), issuing service 741 back in 1884/85. Normally when those Battalions got up to 9999 they would go back to using service number 1.  But in the case of the Regular Army Battalions of the Gloucestershire Regiment they moved on to the five digit numbers. See https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/03/gloucestershire-regiment-1st-and-2nd.html

And once the campaigning units had used up their own reserves they would then draw on the Special Reserves from the 3rd Battalion. The Special Reserves used their own service numbering scheme and would have issued 741 in 1909, usually prefixed with a 3/.  https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/03/gloucestershire-regiment-3rd-special.html

A Special Reservist signed up for six years, of which the first six months were spent in full time training and the rest in civvy street with, in theory, occasional refresher training.

His entry on the Lives of the First World War gives his location on the 1911 Census of England & Wales as Station View, Charfield, Gloucestershire, and living with his parents. That would tend to support him being a Special Reservist.

If he was a Special Reservist he would have been mobilised for war service on the 5th August 1914 and reported to the Depot at Bristol. He would then have moved with the 3rd Battalion to it's war station at Abbey Wood (Woolwich) for more training in preparation to subsequently be used to support the campaigning Battalions of the Regiment.

His Medal Index Card as service number 741 shows William first landing in France to serve with the 1st Battalion on the 11th September 1914 - the Battalion had deployed to France on the 13th August 1914 so he was part of a replacement draft. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/gloucestershire-regiment/

For the Regular Army Battalion to be taking drafts from the Special Reserve that early would imply they had taken heavy casualties - I'm more used to seeing October/ November when at least the Special Reservists had a few more months of training under their belt.

A check of the War Diary may show the arrival of his draft.

Arthur Conan Doyle in his History of the War in France & Flanders: Volume 1, briefly mentions the fighting at this time - "Whilst the 1st Brigade had in this fashion got into and out of a dangerous position, there had been a severe attack upon two regiments of Landon's 3rd Brigade stationed at Langemarck. The defending units were the 2nd Welsh Regiment and the 1st Gloucesters. Aided by a strong artillery backing, they beat off these attacks and inflicted a very heavy loss upon the enemy. The Allied line to the north was solid and unbroken.

The British losses during these operations of the First Corps amounted to 1500 men, while those of the Germans were exceedingly heavy. These inexperienced troops advanced with an indiscriminating enthusiasm which exposed them to severe retaliation. It is doubtful if at any time in the campaign the British fire found so easy a mark. One thousand five hundred dead were counted in the vicinity of Langemarck, and the total loss (including over six hundred prisoners) could not have been less than 10,000 men."http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks12/1202551h.html

When he turned up in the Official Casualty List that appeared in the edition of The Times dated March 8th, 1915 as 741 W.H. Colborn, he was recorded as wounded and missing

The International Committee of the Red Cross doesn't appear to have any records for him, so presumably the information that he died a Prisoner of War came from a different source.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 27 July by PRC
Typo

[PRC]

I don't want to get your hopes up - without a subscription to the British Newspaper Archive I can't see the detail - but they have what looks to be a photo gallery in the edition of the Bristol Times and Mirror dated 18th February 1916 of "Charfield's Record" and which has at least two references to a Colborn, one possibly with the 1st Glosters.

And while filtering down the returns for Colborn and Charfield to get to that I noticed another mention for a Colborn - possibly in a Casualty lists for the Worcestershire Regiment. (As you can see the software transcription of the text in the images leaves a lot to be desired).

Both images courtesy The British Newspaper Archive.

That looks to be referring to a 18640 (Private) P. Colborn.

The Medal Index Card for 18640 Worcestershire Regiment is in the name of Percy Colborn. He was subsequently 508030 in the Labour Corps. First landed in France with the Worcesters on the 18th July 1915, discharged to Class Z reserve 11th April 1919. Not spotting any surviving service records. It looks like Ancestry have at least one and possibly two Pension cards for him - I'm only spoting one image indexed under Colborn 508030 on Fold3, but two additional under Colborn 18640.

I see from the 1911 Census of England & Wales that the 23 year old William has a younger brother Percy, aged 18, a General Labourer born Charfield. That is the only Percy Colborn I was turning up in the pre-war civil records with a connection to the village of Charfield. Apologies if that is a red herring. 

Cheers,
Peter

[Mark7834]

Hi Peter 

William did have a brother called Percy, but not sure if he served in WW1, he may well have done, and it sounds very likely to be him. Percy had a son called Percy, who died in WW2 as a POW

Edited 27 July by Mark7834

[Mark7834]

2 hours ago, PRC said:

I don't want to get your hopes up - without a subscription to the British Newspaper Archive I can't see the detail - but they have what looks to be a photo gallery in the edition of the Bristol Times and Mirror dated 18th February 1916 of "Charfield's Record" and which has at least two references to a Colborn, one possibly with the 1st Glosters.

And while filtering down the returns for Colborn and Charfield to get to that I noticed another mention for a Colborn - possibly in a Casualty lists for the Worcestershire Regiment. (As you can see the software transcription of the text in the images leaves a lot to be desired).

Both images courtesy The British Newspaper Archive.

That looks to be referring to a 18640 (Private) P. Colborn.

The Medal Index Card for 18640 Worcestershire Regiment is in the name of Percy Colborn. He was subsequently 508030 in the Labour Corps. First landed in France with the Worcesters on the 18th July 1915, discharged to Class Z reserve 11th April 1919. Not spotting any surviving service records. It looks like Ancestry have at least one and possibly two Pension cards for him - I'm only spoting one image indexed under Colborn 508030 on Fold3, but two additional under Colborn 18640.

I see from the 1911 Census of England & Wales that the 23 year old William has a younger brother Percy, aged 18, a General Labourer born Charfield. That is the only Percy Colborn I was turning up in the pre-war civil records with a connection to the village of Charfield. Apologies if that is a red herring. 

Cheers,
Peter

Hi Peter 

Thanks for the link that's brilliant, I accessed on their, and the Colborns mentioned are the same family, there was 4 brothers in total.

William 1st glosters died of wounds

Percy as you correctly mentioned in Worcesters

And frank who was also 1st glosters.

Really appreciate the help, thanks

 

[PRC]

2 hours ago, Mark7834 said:

And frank who was also 1st glosters.

Well if William Colborn was service number 741 in the Special Reserve of the Gloucestershire Regiment, going on to serve with the 1st Battalion, I bet you can't guess who was 742

Image courtesy (of a free account on) Ancestry.

His draft landed in France on the 23rd November 1914 so just too late to qualify for the 1914 Star - he received the 1914/15 Star instead. He would go on to serve in the Tank Corps.

There is no additional information on the reverse of the MiC. FindmyPast have two instances of what they call service records under the Tank Corps service numbers - one as F. Colbourne and the other F. Colburn. Given the lack of the full name and any other useful information, I suspect this is an instance of where FindMyPast have noticed his name on a list or report in another mans papers - and have indexed it as a service record. Quite often the record where it was found is entirely unrelated. The Records Office would have been receiving daily lists for a variety of reasons, and once they had updated the relevant soldiers file, the list became scrap paper. We have a long running thread, for instance, trying to recreate all the casualty notifications from their reference numbers. Not an easy task - they came in on sheets of A4 that were often cut in half or even quartered as scrap paper, so only one bit has the reference number. Could be the worlds biggest jig saw puzzle . These bits of scrap paper are then used for internal memo's, computation, etc,and thus turn up in  unrelated soldiers files.

I see from the 1911 Census of England & Wales that the fourth brother, was George, who was 11 at the time of the Census. He won't have been called up until he was 18, and probably wasn't old enough to be sent to a Theatre of War before the end of the conflict. However that would need more investigation and something is burning in the kitchen !

Cheers,
Peter

[BarbaraG]

Reference Ancestry & WFA Pension Record Card

MIC https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/734359:1262

Pension Record https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/110043:61588

[Mark7834]

38 minutes ago, PRC said:

Well if William Colborn was service number 741 in the Special Reserve of the Gloucestershire Regiment, going on to serve with the 1st Battalion, I bet you can't guess who was 742

Image courtesy (of a free account on) Ancestry.

His draft landed in France on the 23rd November 1914 so just too late to qualify for the 1914 Star - he received the 1914/15 Star instead. He would go on to serve in the Tank Corps.

There is no additional information on the reverse of the MiC. FindmyPast have two instances of what they call service records under the Tank Corps service numbers - one as F. Colbourne and the other F. Colburn. Given the lack of the full name and any other useful information, I suspect this is an instance of where FindMyPast have noticed his name on a list or report in another mans papers - and have indexed it as a service record. Quite often the record where it was found is entirely unrelated. The Records Office would have been receiving daily lists for a variety of reasons, and once they had updated the relevant soldiers file, the list became scrap paper. We have a long running thread, for instance, trying to recreate all the casualty notifications from their reference numbers. Not an easy task - they came in on sheets of A4 that were often cut in half or even quartered as scrap paper, so only one bit has the reference number. Could be the worlds biggest jig saw puzzle . These bits of scrap paper are then used for internal memo's, computation, etc,and thus turn up in  unrelated soldiers files.

I see from the 1911 Census of England & Wales that the fourth brother, was George, who was 11 at the time of the Census. He won't have been called up until he was 18, and probably wasn't old enough to be sent to a Theatre of War before the end of the conflict. However that would need more investigation and something is burning in the kitchen !

Cheers,
Peter

Thanks for that Peter, that's really interesting to know about Frank, hopefully there is more information on him out there on where he went, especially as he was in the tank corps, as I myself was in the armoured corps, 

13 minutes ago, BarbaraG said:

Reference Ancestry & WFA Pension Record Card

MIC https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/734359:1262

Pension Record https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/110043:61588

Thanks for that Barbara 

[BarbaraG]

British War Medal & Victory Medal Roll (Ancestry)

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/6452921:5119

[BarbaraG]

1914-1915 Star (Ancestry)

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5639942:5119

 

Not sure if any useful information here...

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/de808b099f1a46438f7eb269d34c5795

Edited 27 July by BarbaraG

[Mark7834]

13 minutes ago, BarbaraG said:

British War Medal & Victory Medal Roll (Ancestry)

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/6452921:5119

Thanks Barbara 8th tank corps is a good start, thank you 

[PRC]

1 hour ago, PRC said:

I see from the 1911 Census of England & Wales that the fourth brother, was George, who was 11 at the time of the Census. He won't have been called up until he was 18, and probably wasn't old enough to be sent to a Theatre of War before the end of the conflict.

Looks like the birth of a George Colburn, mothers' maiden name Fry, was registered in the Thornbury District* in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1900**
*The area covered by Thornbury Civil Registration District for Births, Marriages and Deaths included the civil parish of Charfield.
** So birth could legally have been between the middle of August 1900 and the 31st December 1900.

I'm not spotting him in the indexing of the 1921 Census of England & Wales on FindMyPast.

The 1939 Register on FindMyPast has a George "Colborne", born 1900, who was recorded at Church Street, Wotton-Under-Edge, Gloucestershire. More details, including the full stated date of birth, will be available with subscription access. It may also confirm that surname is a transcription error! The transcription available on Ancestry may also differ.

The death of a 44 year old George Colborn was registered in the Stroud District of Gloucestershire in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1945.
The 1945 Probate Calendar records that a George Colborn, of Church Street, Wotton-Under-Edge, Gloucestershire, died on the 4th February 1945.

While George could have volunteered from the age of 17 rather than being called up in the weeks after his 18th birthday, either way he wouldn't have been sent to a Theatre of War until the age of 19 - a rule that was more strictly enforced as part of the price of the Government agreeing to conscription. So if George did serve it would be after the main conflict was over - although of course he could have been part of the army of occupation in Germany, or fighting in Ireland or in any of the other insurrections and wars around the Empire.

Cheers,
Peter