Pictures. 8551 Pte Edward Clannachan. 1st Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers.

[lfergie1506]

My great uncle Private Edward Clannachan, 8551 served with Royal Scot Fusilier 1st battalion, but sadly died in France and Flanders, we have absolutely no pictures of him, did the soldiers every get pictured during enlistment?

[FROGSMILE]

24 minutes ago, lfergie1506 said:

My great uncle Private Edward Clannachan, 8551 served with Royal Scot Fusilier 1st battalion, but sadly died in France and Flanders, we have absolutely no pictures of him, did the soldiers every get pictured during enlistment?

They were very different times in terms of photography and there was no systematic policy of photographing recruits during the war.  Sometimes group photos were taken both formally and informally (e.g. at training camp) but few of these listed names.  Other sources are newspaper reports of casualties with photo often donated by families, ironically often portraits organised by the soldier himself before going overseas.  Some of these survive in newspaper archives although seldom of good quality.  Originals of such photos are bought and sold by collectors, sometimes with names, but often without.  You will see many in the “postcards” thread here in the forum.

Edited 10 September by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

Hi @lfergie1506 and welcome to the forum

Edward was a prewar soldier deploying overseas with his Battalion and landing in France on the 14th August 1914.

Unfortunately like the majority of Great War era other ranks service records his appear to have been lost in the Blitz, when German bombs burnt out the London Warehouse where they were stored.

The Army Service numbers website shows that the Regular Army battalions of the Royal Scots Fusiliers would have issued regimental service number 8551 at some point between the 10th January 1905, (8518) and the 27th January 1906, (8762) https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/06/royal-scots-fusiliers-1st-2nd.html

The standard enlistment was 12 years, split between a period in the "Colours", (i.e. in uniform, in barracks, subject to military discipline 24/7, receiving full pay, board & loding, clothing and medical care) and a period in the "Reserves", (i.e back in civvy street, subject to military discipline only when attending refresher training, receiving half pay and access to medical care). At the time he enlisted the standard the army was offering was 9 years in the colours and 3 years in the reserves. I assume he was probably the 24 year old Private Edward Clannachan, married and born Neilston*, Renfrewshire, who was recorded on the 1911 Census of England & Wales in Barracks with the 1st Battalion, Royal Scots Fusiliers at Roberts Heights, Pretoria, Transvaal, South Africa. (British Army Garrisons around the Empire were in scope for that Census). His Army Trade was Cook.

He may only have been released to the reserves just a few months before Britain joined the Great War, but he would most likely have been a prime candidate to help bring the Battalion up to campaigning strength following mobilisation on the 5th August 1914.

That longer period of pre-war soldiering may have increased the opportunity for him to have been pictured in uniform, but ultimately that was up to the soldier as an individual.

*Soldiers Died in the Great War, an HMSO publication from the 1920's records Edward as born and enlisted Neilston.

Local newspapers remain the most likely route, but many are not digitised and so require visits to archives. The problem in my experience is that many pre-war soldiers had no local roots anywhere and so there was little incentive for surviving family members to submit a picture, and risk not getting it back, to have it published in an area where the deceased was unknown.

Good luck with your search - there are more pictures are out there than people realise, the problem is usually with identification.

Cheers,
Peter

[lfergie1506]

8 hours ago, PRC said:

Hi @lfergie1506 and welcome to the forum

Edward was a prewar soldier deploying overseas with his Battalion and landing in France on the 14th August 1914.

Unfortunately like the majority of Great War era other ranks service records his appear to have been lost in the Blitz, when German bombs burnt out the London Warehouse where they were stored.

The Army Service numbers website shows that the Regular Army battalions of the Royal Scots Fusiliers would have issued regimental service number 8551 at some point between the 10th January 1905, (8518) and the 27th January 1906, (8762) https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/06/royal-scots-fusiliers-1st-2nd.html

The standard enlistment was 12 years, split between a period in the "Colours", (i.e. in uniform, in barracks, subject to military discipline 24/7, receiving full pay, board & loding, clothing and medical care) and a period in the "Reserves", (i.e back in civvy street, subject to military discipline only when attending refresher training, receiving half pay and access to medical care). At the time he enlisted the standard the army was offering was 9 years in the colours and 3 years in the reserves. I assume he was probably the 24 year old Private Edward Clannachan, married and born Neilston*, Renfrewshire, who was recorded on the 1911 Census of England & Wales in Barracks with the 1st Battalion, Royal Scots Fusiliers at Roberts Heights, Pretoria, Transvaal, South Africa. (British Army Garrisons around the Empire were in scope for that Census). His Army Trade was Cook.

He may only have been released to the reserves just a few months before Britain joined the Great War, but he would most likely have been a prime candidate to help bring the Battalion up to campaigning strength following mobilisation on the 5th August 1914.

That longer period of pre-war soldiering may have increased the opportunity for him to have been pictured in uniform, but ultimately that was up to the soldier as an individual.

*Soldiers Died in the Great War, an HMSO publication from the 1920's records Edward as born and enlisted Neilston.

Local newspapers remain the most likely route, but many are not digitised and so require visits to archives. The problem in my experience is that many pre-war soldiers had no local roots anywhere and so there was little incentive for surviving family members to submit a picture, and risk not getting it back, to have it published in an area where the deceased was unknown.

Good luck with your search - there are more pictures are out there than people realise, the problem is usually with identification.

Cheers,
Peter

Peter thank you so much for providing this level of information, you have the correct Edward Clannachan born in Neilston, having this additional information all helps in trying to piece together his short life.    His brother was killed in South Africa in the Anglo Boer War in 1902, I am thinking he may have wanted to make his family proud after John was killed.

I really appreciated the time you have taken to reply and search, I am fascinated in finding out more about Edward and as you say Newspaper articles may be the way, however I was wondering where I could check if there was photos taking during his time in the reserves, any ideas on what sites to check?

[lfergie1506]

10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

They were very different times in terms of photography and there was no systematic policy of photographing recruits during the war.  Sometimes group photos were taken both formally and informally (e.g. at training camp) but few of these listed names.  Other sources are newspaper reports of casualties with photo often donated by families, ironically often portraits organised by the soldier himself before going overseas.  Some of these survive in newspaper archives although seldom of good quality.  Originals of such photos are bought and sold by collectors, sometimes with names, but often without.  You will see many in the “postcards” thread here in the forum.

Hi @FROGSMILEThank you very much for taking the time to reply, I will check out the postcard thread area!

[FROGSMILE]

55 minutes ago, lfergie1506 said:

Hi @FROGSMILEThank you very much for taking the time to reply, I will check out the postcard thread area!

I’m glad to help a little.  Forum member @WilliamRev specialises in the Royal Scots Fusiliers and @Tom Lang and @6RRF can often offer good advice too.

Peter gave some excellent information indicating that your subject was a prewar regular and I agree with him that it increases a bit the chances of photos existing, it’s a matter of finding something where he’s actually mentioned, which unfortunately is the rather rare aspect.  There is a regimental museum of sorts and once you’ve collated all the personal information that you can, perhaps you could contact them and see what other information they might have, if any.  Be prepared for a fee to achieve that though, as the museums are minimally funded by the state (barely at all) and rely on the time of volunteer researchers and the small income that they generate. https://www.rhf.org.uk

One final point is that I would emphasise to you if you’re under 40 and used to the - mobile phone with camera world - where nearly everyone has such a device full of hundreds of images, that times were totally different back then.  Organised photos were a big deal and few soldiers owned cameras, which were largely confined to the officers, who had far more money.  It meant that a lot of reliance was placed on commercial photographers, and soldiers had to pay for the prints.  On around a shilling (5p) a day, before stoppages, a regular soldier might have a choice between a nice portrait photo, and a sticky bun in the dry canteen during the day, and a beer in the wet canteen at night with his pals.  I leave the rest to your imagination.

The wartime period was different, and commercial photographers prospered, as most soldiers, volunteers and conscripts, wanted portrait images that they could send home, as well as group shots with their mates that would record their time in training, or out on rest from the frontline once in France.  The limitation again was how few photos actually had details scribbled on the back.  You might well see a photo of your subject, but not know that you’re looking at him.

Edited 11 September by FROGSMILE

[6RRF]

I wish you every luck in contacting the RSF museum, but would offer two warnings. First, for the reasons Frogsmile has set out, individual photies are hard to find unless officers or other prominent "appointments" such as pipe majors. That's true of all regiments of course, but unfortunately the RSF museum suffered a very bad fire about 30 years ago and lost a lot of their stuff at the time. I've no doubt that they've been working hard to build it up since, but...

Good luck anyway

[lfergie1506]

Thank you @6RRF, I was kind of hoping as the surname is quite unusual this could perhaps be of a help in trying to locate him, however I guess it will be a mammoth task!

[BillyH]

His widow or family paid for an entry in de Ruvigny's Roll of Honour (no photograph unfortunately) but if they went to that trouble to commemorate him then his death would surely have been mentioned in the local papers? The British Newspaper Archive is worth a try, unfortunately I do not subscribe.

I presume you know that there are service papers for him?

BillyH.

[lfergie1506]

Quote

 

Hi Billy, thank you for update, I had no idea the family had to pay for that entry, I did see it on the Ancestry website.  The local paper does mention his passing, however no pictures on the article.   Apologies for being stupid but can I access his service records and if so who/where do I contact?

[Michelle Young]

The papers will be  on Ancestry or Find My Past I’d imagine. 
 

[BillyH]

I slipped up, it is his brother Alexander that does have service papers - I will check for Edward and get back.

BillyH.

[lfergie1506]

Thanks Michelle, I seen an entry on Ancestry which was the record of Soldier's effects and his medal record index cards, is there anything else I should be searching for or is this his service records?

[lfergie1506]

3 minutes ago, BillyH said:

I slipped up, it is his brother Alexander that does have service papers - I will check for Edward and get back.

BillyH.

Thanks Billy for your help, there was 6 brothers, John and Edward both died in wars.    John died in the Anglo Boer War in 1902 at age just 19, although he is memorialised they have mis-spelt his name Clanachan, which I guess could have happened back then. 

11 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

The papers will be  on Ancestry or Find My Past I’d imagine. 
 

Thanks MIchelle

 

[BillyH]

8 minutes ago, lfergie1506 said:

. . . . . record of Soldier's effects and his medal record index cards, is there anything else I should be searching for or is this his service records?

Apologies, no service papers for Edward. I presume that it is your tree on 'Ancestry'?

You should find the 2 medal roll entries on Ancestry for him as well, and the 'Soldiers Died in the Great War'. You probably realise that he was a pre-war regular? 

BillyH.

[BillyH]

You should get the battalion war diary from National Archives (link below). It is free of charge but you have to register first (also free).  You will be able to see what was happening on the day he was killed.

1 Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers | The National Archives

BillyH.

[lfergie1506]

11 minutes ago, BillyH said:

Apologies, no service papers for Edward. I presume that it is your tree on 'Ancestry'?

You should find the 2 medal roll entries on Ancestry for him as well, and the 'Soldiers Died in the Great War'. You probably realise that he was a pre-war regular? 

BillyH.

Thanks Billy, yeah I managed to find the medal roll entries and the Soldier's effects on Ancestry, I didn't know he was a pre-war regular until this was pointed out on this thread, I am new to searching military info so not entirely sure if there is anything else I should be aware of.     I would also love to know more about the types of medal he achieved, this is my next research!

[lfergie1506]

3 minutes ago, BillyH said:

You should get the battalion war diary from National Archives (link below). It is free of charge but you have to register first (also free).  You will be able to see what was happening on the day he was killed.

1 Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers | The National Archives

BillyH.

That would be amazing to access this!    You really have been a great help Billy!  this is so much appreciated.

[BillyH]

3 hours ago, lfergie1506 said:

I didn't know he was a pre-war regular until this was pointed out on this thread, I am new to searching military info so not entirely sure if there is anything else I should be aware of.  I would also love to know more about the types of medal he achieved, this is my next research!

You will find him on the 1911 census in Pretoria with the RSF. Aged 24, married, Soldier Cook. He qualified for a 1914 Star (with clasp), British War Medal, and Victory Medal.

BillyH. 

edit : it looks as though he enlisted in 1905 : Army Service Numbers 1881-1918: Royal Scots Fusiliers - 1st & 2nd Battalions

edit 2 : apologies to Peter, he had already supplied this information.

Edited 11 September by BillyH

[PRC]

9 minutes ago, BillyH said:

You will find him on the 1911 census in Pretoria with the RSF. Aged 24, married, Soldier Cook. He qualified for a 1914 Star (with clasp), British War Medal, and Victory Medal.

 

10 hours ago, PRC said:

Edward was a prewar soldier deploying overseas with his Battalion and landing in France on the 14th August 1914.

Unfortunately like the majority of Great War era other ranks service records his appear to have been lost in the Blitz, when German bombs burnt out the London Warehouse where they were stored.

The Army Service numbers website shows that the Regular Army battalions of the Royal Scots Fusiliers would have issued regimental service number 8551 at some point between the 10th January 1905, (8518) and the 27th January 1906, (8762) https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/06/royal-scots-fusiliers-1st-2nd.html

The standard enlistment was 12 years, split between a period in the "Colours", (i.e. in uniform, in barracks, subject to military discipline 24/7, receiving full pay, board & loding, clothing and medical care) and a period in the "Reserves", (i.e back in civvy street, subject to military discipline only when attending refresher training, receiving half pay and access to medical care). At the time he enlisted the standard the army was offering was 9 years in the colours and 3 years in the reserves. I assume he was probably the 24 year old Private Edward Clannachan, married and born Neilston*, Renfrewshire, who was recorded on the 1911 Census of England & Wales in Barracks with the 1st Battalion, Royal Scots Fusiliers at Roberts Heights, Pretoria, Transvaal, South Africa. (British Army Garrisons around the Empire were in scope for that Census). His Army Trade was Cook.

He may only have been released to the reserves just a few months before Britain joined the Great War, but he would most likely have been a prime candidate to help bring the Battalion up to campaigning strength following mobilisation on the 5th August 1914.

Given the likelihood of a 1905 enlistement there is a chance that some of his peers has already been discharged, either honourably or dishonourably, before 1914. In those cases their service records were stored elsewhere and so were not lost in the fire.

8550 James Coyle attested at Dundee on the 3rd February 1905, enlisting for a short service of 12 years, split 9 years in the colours and 3 in the reserves. He was then serving with a militia battalion of the Royal Highlanders. He reported to the Regiment Depot at Ayr on the following day, and then or shortly after he would have been issued with his regimental service number. After completing his basic training he was posted to the 2nd Battalion. He was discharged on the 21st November 1905 as medically unfit for service. His discharge record is not signed by the soldier himself – that part of the form is noted “Insane”.

8552 Hugh Clannachan attested at Neilston on the 1st February 1905, enlisting for a short service of 12 years, split 9 years in the colours and 3 in the reserves. Then aged 18 and with a normal occupation of Labourer, he had lived outside his fathers’ household for more than 3 years, living at Main Street, Neilston. He had no previous military experience. At his medical he was recorded as 5 feet 7 and 7/8ths inches tall, with dark brown hair, hazel blue eyes and a sallow complexion. he weighed 142lbs. His faith was Roman Catholic. His next of kin was his father John, stated to be living in the U.S.A. and his mother Sarah, living in Paisley. He reported to the Regiment Depot at Ayr on the 6th February 1905, and then or shortly after he would have been issued with his regimental service number. After completing his basic training he was posted to the 2nd Battalion, On the 7th May 1906 he was appointed Lance Corporal. On the 22nd March 1907 he passed his 3rd class certificate of education – a stepping stone to being put forward for the Corporals’ exam. He was posted back to the depot on the 21st November 1907. At some point in 1908 he was found medically unfit for further service. At his discharge on the 16th August 1908 at Edinburgh he was recorded as 21 years and 6 months old, was 5 feet 8 inches tall, with dark brown hair, hazel blue eyes and a sallow complexion. His distinguishing mark was a scar on his right temple. His address on discharge was to be 46 High Street, Neilston, Renfrewshire. His military character was regarded as very good and he had one good conduct badge. All of his service had been in the UK.

8553 William Clark attested at Dundee on the 7th February 1905, enlisting for a short service of 12 years, split 9 years in the colours and 3 in the reserves – although that had to be subsequently confirmed as an old form stating 3 years in the colours and 9 in the reserves was used. He was then serving with a militia battalion of the Royal Highlanders. He reported to the Regiment Depot at Ayr on the following day, and then or shortly after he would have been issued with his regimental service number. He was discharged on the 3rd July 1905, no reason stated.

____________________________  

So looks likely that Edward and (presumably) brother Hugh enlisted at the same time and in the same place. I’m not spotting Hugh’s records on Ancestry but I may simply be using the wrong search criteria – they are normally called something like Royal Chelsea Hospital Pension records.
They can certainly be found on FindMyPast and Genes Reunited.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 11 September by PRC
Typos

[lfergie1506]

43 minutes ago, lfergie1506 said:

That would be amazing to access this!    You really have been a great help Billy!  this is so much appreciated.

 

32 minutes ago, BillyH said:

You will find him on the 1911 census in Pretoria with the RSF. Aged 24, married, Soldier Cook. He qualified for a 1914 Star (with clasp), British War Medal, and Victory Medal.

BillyH. 

edit : it looks as though he enlisted in 1905 : Army Service Numbers 1881-1918: Royal Scots Fusiliers - 1st & 2nd Battalions

This gives me some more info to work on. I managed to download the information on what happened on that day, that is going to be fascinating to read, I would not have never known about that!    I will also check out the link above as this may contain further info I wasn't aware of!    Your kindness and time has been so valuable!

31 minutes ago, BillyH said:

You will find him on the 1911 census in Pretoria with the RSF. Aged 24, married, Soldier Cook. He qualified for a 1914 Star (with clasp), British War Medal, and Victory Medal.

BillyH. 

edit : it looks as though he enlisted in 1905 : Army Service Numbers 1881-1918: Royal Scots Fusiliers - 1st & 2nd Battalions

[BillyH]

Edward's three war medals appear to have been returned under King's Regulations 992 (1923).  His next of kin (his mother?) appears to have died in 1919 and medals were usually not posted out until around 1921. Perhaps other members of his family didn't want them or could not be located. Sadly I think they would have been destroyed, but other GWF members may know better.

His Soldier's Effects record shows that he had originally enlisted at Neilston on 1st Feb.1905

BillyH.

Edited 11 September by BillyH

[FROGSMILE]

10 minutes ago, BillyH said:

Edward's three war medals appear to have been returned under King's Regulations 992 (1923).  His next of kin (his mother?) appears to have died in 1919 and medals were usually not posted out until around 1921. Perhaps other members of his family didn't want them or could not be located. Sadly I think they would have been destroyed, but other GWF members may know better.

His Soldier's Effects record shows that he had originally enlisted at Neilston on 1st Feb.1905

BillyH.

If never collected (in the way that you have described) they can be reclaimed by a directly descended family member.  There are several threads about this including some successful accounts showing photos of the medals received.

[WilliamRev]

I have been looking through the the British Newspaper Archive for mentions of Edward Clannachan (and in particular a photo), but so far all I have come across is this article from the Barrhead News of Friday26 June 1903, which shows him being sentenced to 21 days hard labour for breaking into an old woman's house with three pals, and stealing a pair of boots and a bird cage. (I'll keep on searching for that photo - with such a distinctive surname the search is not too hard).

William

[lfergie1506]

45 minutes ago, BillyH said:

Edward's three war medals appear to have been returned under King's Regulations 992 (1923).  His next of kin (his mother?) appears to have died in 1919 and medals were usually not posted out until around 1921. Perhaps other members of his family didn't want them or could not be located. Sadly I think they would have been destroyed, but other GWF members may know better.

His Soldier's Effects record shows that he had originally enlisted at Neilston on 1st Feb.1905

BillyH.

Ah I see, the strange thing is I found a marriage record for Edward however, no one knows anything about her, I can't find any trace of her other than the marriage record, I have checked census records and for any birth records of children or divorce records but nothing, its like she just disappeared, she was Irish and I have also checked through all the Irish records.    I am wondering if the medals went to her even though his mother was listed as his next of kin.   This is something I am still working on.   Thanks Billy, another piece of information which is great to hear.