I need help to identify this Scottish Uniform

[Tom Lang]

I am attempting to help a friend with the attached photograph.

The cap badge looks like KOSBs but the Sporran Cantle Badge is questionable.

I've included close-ups of the Cap Barge, Sporran Cantle and Belt Buckle.

Hopefully someone of the GWF Gurus can help.

Regards,

Tom.

Edited Sunday at 19:40 by Tom Lang
typo

[4thGordons]

My immediate reaction would be Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders (three rows of red and white dicing on the Glengarry and the shape of the badge) however the sporran would not be the usual type for Argyll's nor would the hose.

The Sporran badge looks to me like it might be a Boars Head -- AS SHOWN HERE

So perhaps there are clues in that thread?

Chris

 

 

[battle of loos]

good evening,

here is the glengarry to the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders :

regards

michel

[FROGSMILE]

I think it’s yet another one of those awful spoof Scottish highlanders photos that have turned up so often in this forum.  His dress is made up of mixed and ill fitting A&SH items, with sloppy spats, civilian shoes, a kilt that’s seemingly unpressed, a non standard sporran badge, and a too slack waist-belt with an officer’s pattern clasp.  He also has very long sideburns that are out of period.

NB.  There was the civilian Campbell College Pipe band, Belfast, who wore a virtually identical uniform, but there’s nothing about the OP’s photo that suggests, piper, drummer, or bandsman.  Also there is no evidence of the band ever wearing a scarlet doublet, as can be seen below.

images via websearch.

Here are some more spoofs Tom: 

 

Edited Monday at 09:49 by FROGSMILE

[gnr.ktrha]

Hi, Is there any indication where the photograph was taken, such as a photographers stamp on the photo etc?
           I am not saying that he is a member but his uniform does seem to conform to the 5th Volunteer Battalion of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. They were raised in Argyllshire and had worn a Boar's head on a bugle as a cap badge during their Rifle Volunteer days. Their sporrans were white with two black tails, and what looks like a Boar's head badge on the sporran. In 1883 they began to wear Glengarry bonnets of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders pattern and in 1887 adopted a badge similar in shape and appearance to their parent regiment. In 1902 the blue Kilmarnock Bonnet with dicing was introduced, but the glengarry was kept for their undress uniform. The uniform is illustrated in Records of the Scottish Volunteer Force 1859-1908, by Lt. Gen Sir J M Grierson. There seems to have been a transition period between wearing collar badges.
            I can only find one photo of members of the battalion and that dates from post 1902, but in the photograph they are still wearing the same pattern of sporran with what appears to be a Boars head badge on it. 
     Here is a link to an image of the belt buckle which looks very similar-
https://www.coldstreammilitaryantiques.com/en-GB/badges/5th-vb-argyll-sutherland-highlanders-waist-belt-clasp/prod_20854
                  
     An interesting photograph. Does your friend have any additional details about who it might be of or where they were from?

[FROGSMILE]

21 minutes ago, gnr.ktrha said:

Hi, Is there any indication where the photograph was taken, such as a photographers stamp on the photo etc?
           I am not saying that he is a member but his uniform does seem to conform to the 5th Volunteer Battalion of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. They were raised in Argyllshire and had worn a Boar's head on a bugle as a cap badge during their Rifle Volunteer days. Their sporrans were white with two black tails, and what looks like a Boar's head badge on the sporran. In 1883 they began to wear Glengarry bonnets of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders pattern and in 1887 adopted a badge similar in shape and appearance to their parent regiment. In 1902 the blue Kilmarnock Bonnet with dicing was introduced, but the glengarry was kept for their undress uniform. The uniform is illustrated in Records of the Scottish Volunteer Force 1859-1908, by Lt. Gen Sir J M Grierson. There seems to have been a transition period between wearing collar badges.
            I can only find one photo of members of the battalion and that dates from post 1902, but in the photograph they are still wearing the same pattern of sporran with what appears to be a Boars head badge on it. 
     Here is a link to an image of the belt buckle which looks very similar-
https://www.coldstreammilitaryantiques.com/en-GB/badges/5th-vb-argyll-sutherland-highlanders-waist-belt-clasp/prod_20854
                  
     An interesting photograph. Does your friend have any additional details about who it might be of or where they were from?

Well done!  I do think that you’ve got it.  The waist belt clasp matches and his long side burns match the period you suggest too.  His general and comparatively scruffy appearance also fits with an auxiliary citizen soldier of the time.  See also: 

 

Waistbelt clasp image from Coldstream military antiques under fair usage.

Edited Monday at 10:14 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

@Bob Davies I wonder if the admin/mods would perhaps consider merging these three threads under the heading: ‘5th (Volunteer) Battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders’ if it’s agreed as a useful thing to do?
 

Edited Monday at 14:59 by FROGSMILE

[Tom Lang]

Many thanks to everyone. This photograph was passed to me by a friend. I first thought it was one of those photographer 'spoofs'. But with the help of the GWF Gurus you have provided a precise identity of this uniform. I asked my friend and he is able to say that the photo was by a photographer in Dunoon, so Argyll is a perfect candidate.

Many Thanks,

Tom.

[Bob Davies]

4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

@Bob Davies I wonder if the admin/mods would perhaps consider merging these three threads under the heading: ‘5th (Volunteer) Battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders’ if it’s agreed as a useful thing to do?
 

I am just back in from work, so apologies for the late reply FROGSMILE.

If you would give me some time to have a read, I will see what the other mods think.

Regards,

Bob.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Bob Davies said:

I am just back in from work, so apologies for the late reply FROGSMILE.

If you would give me some time to have a read, I will see what the other mods think.

Regards,

Bob.

Nothing more than a suggestion Bob.  The various photos have stumped us several times (on different occasions) until now and drawing them together under the correct designation would draw all the information and relevant images together under the relevant unit title.

Edited Monday at 20:48 by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

On 16/09/2024 at 05:52, gnr.ktrha said:

Hi, Is there any indication where the photograph was taken, such as a photographers stamp on the photo etc?
           I am not saying that he is a member but his uniform does seem to conform to the 5th Volunteer Battalion of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. They were raised in Argyllshire and had worn a Boar's head on a bugle as a cap badge during their Rifle Volunteer days. Their sporrans were white with two black tails, and what looks like a Boar's head badge on the sporran. In 1883 they began to wear Glengarry bonnets of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders pattern and in 1887 adopted a badge similar in shape and appearance to their parent regiment. In 1902 the blue Kilmarnock Bonnet with dicing was introduced, but the glengarry was kept for their undress uniform. The uniform is illustrated in Records of the Scottish Volunteer Force 1859-1908, by Lt. Gen Sir J M Grierson. There seems to have been a transition period between wearing collar badges.
            I can only find one photo of members of the battalion and that dates from post 1902, but in the photograph they are still wearing the same pattern of sporran with what appears to be a Boars head badge on it. 
     Here is a link to an image of the belt buckle which looks very similar-
https://www.coldstreammilitaryantiques.com/en-GB/badges/5th-vb-argyll-sutherland-highlanders-waist-belt-clasp/prod_20854
                  
     An interesting photograph. Does your friend have any additional details about who it might be of or where they were from?

I quite agree with this assessment. I would add that the Boar's head badge on the sporran is part of the crest of Clan Campbell.  In that connection, this volunteer corps became formally associated with the 91st Princess Louise's Argyllshire Highlanders from 1873 until that unit became the 1st Bn A&SH in 1881. Princess Louise was, of course, Duchess of Argyll whose husband was chief of Clan Campbell. I think it noteworthy that this volunteer unit retained the kilt even though the 91st Highlanders dressed in trews.