Band Major - rank?

[Moonraker]

I have a tatty postcard showing an Australian Imperial Force band, probably at Tidworth Barracks c1918. On its back are "New B. M.  *" and "*  Our Old B.M.", the asterisks presumably relating to Xs originally on the image but which I can't discern.

I assume that these denote Band Majors, which I appreciate would have been an appointment rather than a rank, as with Drum Majors, to which, I guess, they may have equated?  Wikipedia tells me that today Australian "drum majors generally have the rank of a senior NCO. However, capability is the main qualification for appointment: the most senior or highest-ranked member of the unit is not always the drum major."

I assume that the three middle men in caps are officers and the man on their right is a senior NCO. It's slightly interesting that the man of their left is also capped and clutching a trumpet.

Informed comment would be appreciated, please.

[DavidOwen]

FMP doesn't pick up on any Australians with a rank of "Band Major" in WW1.

There is one Band Sergeant Major in the WW2 collection.

[charlie2]

BM is the abbreviation for Band Master

[DavidOwen]

Thanks Charlie that increases number of men on FMP in WW2 to 4 - still none listed in WW1.

[charlie2]

1 and 4 are the Band Masters, 2 and 3 at a guess are the Battalion? CO and 2 i/C.

Charlie

[Moonraker]

4 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

Thanks Charlie that increases number of men on FMP in WW2 to 4 - still none listed in WW1.

Ah! Thanks to all for your very rapid responses. Googling "bandmaster" brings up far more hits, and most/many of those relating to the AIF give the rank as sergeant.

[charlie2]

@FROGSMILE is the person with the knowledge but to my knowledge Band Masters were normally of Warrant rank, the two in the photo look to wear the tunic and Sam Browne of WO1s.

Charlie

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, charlie2 said:

@FROGSMILE is the person with the knowledge but to my knowledge Band Masters were normally of Warrant rank, the two in the photo look to wear the tunic and Sam Browne of WO1s.

Charlie

Yes Charlie you’re right.  They were made warrant officers in 1881, one of up to three in an infantry battalion.  The primus inter pares was the sergeant major of battalion (later termed RSM after the cavalry artillery practice), the second was the bandmaster and the third was the schoolmaster if he had  12-years service (i.e. time promotion).  In January 1915 all warrant officers in those category were elevated to a first class after a new, second class was created.  As far a I know the AIF would have followed the same practice for those individuals in equivalent substantive appointments, but as always there were occasions where acting rank was used.

In the photo No1 is definitely a bandmaster given his badge of rank and appointment on the right lower arm.  Number 2 is either the battalion adjutant or 2i/c both of whom were usually associated with the band, one usually as its ‘president’.  Number 3 is a staff officer due to his gorget tabs and probably from the unit’s superior brigade headquarters. Number 4 also appears to be an officer due to the absence of any apparent cuff ranking as a WO.

images via websearch.

Edited 4 hours ago by FROGSMILE

[charlie2]

The Sgt? to our right of No. 4 is in all probability the Band Sergeant. 

3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Number 4 also appears to be an officer due to the absence of any apparent cuff ranking as a WO.

I had noticed that, but as there are according to the OP two BMs in the photo, I suggest that there are only two possibilities. I think we are in agreement that 2 and 3 are Officers and 1 is without doubt a BM which leaves 4 as the only other candidate. No other person in the photo is appropriately dressed. In my opinion No.4‘s badge of rank is either hidden or lost due to damage to the photo or No.4 is a Director of Music, i.e. a commissioned „Bandmaster“.

Charlie

[FROGSMILE]

35 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

or No.4 is a Director of Music, i.e. a commissioned „Bandmaster“.

I think that is the more likely Charlie.  The badge being missing is less conceivable, and examining the sleeve I can see no hint of folds that might hide a badge.  I’m not sure when the commissioned bandmaster scheme began, or more importantly when Australia began the practice, but I agree that given what we see it seems feasible.  I concur that the SNCO to the right of number 4 appears to be the Band Sergeant, with three stripes and what seems to be a bandsman’s badge above.

Edited 2 hours ago by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

Charlie I’ve just recalled this linked thread, it seems that the commissioned directors were introduced on 6th June 1914: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/308275-british-company-in-1914/page/2/#comment-3266233

 

Edited 2 hours ago by FROGSMILE

[charlie2]

5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I’ve just recalled this linked thread

Thank you. That makes the possibility of him being a DoM a real one.

Charlie

[FROGSMILE]

18 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

Thank you. That makes the possibility of him being a DoM a real one.

Charlie

Yes, it’s just a matter of how quickly Australia followed suit with what were at the time auxiliary forces rather than a regular army.