Samuel Henry Jagoe. (X) Photo of SA officers dated Feb 1917.

[Mike9678]

Can anyone identify any of these men?   Photo is dated Feb 1917.   Looking at the reported battles, I suspect it is taken near Arras where a battle was fought by the SA forces in April 1917

[Waddell]

Couple of points to consider Mike before a few others have a close look at the image. 

They aren't officers, they look like enlisted men. In fact they look like drivers in a transport section with the bandoliers and spurs.

The cap badge does appear to be 1st South African Infantry Regiment, however, there are three wearing what looks to be South African Engineers badges (including the one marked with an X).

Identifying individual soldiers from the image is unlikley.

Do you have any further details on the image? Like a studio mark? A name for the X man?

It certainly appears to have been taken in Winter. Could it have been taken in England?

Others will add more.

Nice image by the way.

Scott

MIGHT BE WORTH ASKING THE MODS TO POST THIS IN THE UNIFORMS AND EQUIPMENT SECTION,

Edited Thursday at 11:45 by Waddell
Added more.

[Mike9678]

Thanks for the input, Waddell.   Good thoughts,  the one with the X is my grandfather, he was a telegraphist (morse code operator for "Cable and Wireless") working out of a station in Durban South Africa in civil life.   We have no idea what he actually did in the Forces, but suspect he was still a wireless operator (?)   Not being familar with uniforms, I appreciate your comments.   He survived the war, and died about 1962.   He emigrated to South Africa wiht a job at Cable and Wireless, in 1910.  There is no record of him enlisting in 1914, and no travel record to Europe, BUT  I have a record of him travelling back from the UK to S.A. in 1915, and then no record of him travelling (again) back to Europe - perhaps because he was on a troop ship?  After the 1915 record, there is only this photo from 1917, until I get a series of photos from 1918, after the war, from a home in Liverpool, where he was with his future wife and her family.

It is a neat photo - that is why I am hoping some other family member of one of these men, might also have a copy and be able to provide some input....!

Any input apprciated.

thanks

M

[Bob Davies]

54 minutes ago, Mike9678 said:

Any input apprciated.

Mike, as Waddell suggested we can easily move this to ''Uniforms, Cap badges and Insignia'' .

Edit; ''Soldiers and their Units'' may be a better option?

You will probably get more responses if it is there.

Just let me know.

Regards,

Bob.

[Mike9678]

Please move it - I am at a loss as to how to do it at this end

 

Both places?

M 

[Bob Davies]

3 minutes ago, Mike9678 said:

Please move it - I am at a loss as to how to do it at this end

 

Both places?

M 

It will have to be one or the other.

I would suggest ''Soldiers and their Units'' .

Regards,

Bob.

[Bob Davies]

Are you willing to give us his name please, that would give others researching a good start?

[Mike9678]

Samuel Henry Jagoe 

So far - I have turned up nothing.

thx

M

[corisande]

He survived the war, and died about 1962. 

This is presumably him

 

[corisande]

Which gives you his birth in Irish GRO at Bandon on 8 Mar 1890

[corisande]

He is in 1901 census in Main St , Schull

 

Leaves for South Africa on  25 April 1910

Arrives back in UK on 9 Sept 1915

Returns Durban on 23 Jul 1926 from UK [edit, I got that wrong, he left UK on that date to return to SA}

 

 

Edited Thursday at 16:55 by corisande

[Mike9678]

Exatcly correct !!   I'm just browsing the fact that it does/could snow in February in the Liverpool area, where my grandmother lived.    Trying to find some history of a SA Forces maintenance depot, or Kings Liverpool maintenance depot in the Liverpool area..... as a location for this photo.

many thanks for your input.   It is the military record I am trying to pin down - quite amazing that you can find these details (!)

Mike

[corisande]

Basically when you have few details , you need to tie down his exact life details

He seems to have married in 1918 in Liverpool to Mary Ninian McCallum (who died in Durban)

He may, for example joined the British army  after arriving back in UK, perhaps having served with SA forces in SA first

[Mike9678]

Hey Guys;

Here's the reverse side of this photograph - a post card, printed in the UK town of Newport Pagnell - I cannot make out, or track down the photographer.

A google search of weather in the UK for Feb 1917, reports one of the worst winters in memory - also for the continent.

Any input on the photographer, would be of interest.

thx

Mike

WW1 Feb 12 1917 SH Jagoe20240927.pdf

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, Mike9678 said:

Hey Guys;

Here's the reverse side of this photograph - a post card, printed in the UK town of Newport Pagnell - I cannot make out, or track down the photographer.

A google search of weather in the UK for Feb 1917, reports one of the worst winters in memory - also for the continent.

Any input on the photographer, would be of interest.

thx

Mike

WW1 Feb 12 1917 SH Jagoe20240927.pdf 712.61 kB · 0 downloads

I think that the photographer is probably Charles Sayle of 19 St John Street who plied his trade as a photographer in Newport Pagnell between 1911 and 1924.

Newport Pagnell was one of the training bases for the Corps of Royal Engineers during WW1.

Edited 2 hours ago by FROGSMILE

[Mike9678]

thank you

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, Mike9678 said:

thank you

Sayle was reputedly very well known as the principal photographer at Newport Pagnell.

Apparently South African troops were stationed in several locations in the UK, including Bordon, Fleet, and Bexhill:

Bordon: Infantry units were stationed at Bordon.

Fleet: Ambulance units were stationed at Fleet.

Bexhill: Artillery units were stationed at Bexhill.

There is no mention of any focal point for South African Engineer Corps but perhaps they did some training at Newport Pagnell.  Forum member @benjamin thyla might know or be able to find out. I do not see how else they might have had their photos taken there given how far away Cambridgeshire is from the other locations where they were centred.

It’s a very fine photo and must be quite rare, as I can only find very few photos of white SA troops online.  The image has good resolution and looking at their posture it is palpable just how cold the men must have been feeling, perhaps emphasised by the more familiar to them warmth of their home climate by comparison.

They look quite smart in their pristine great coats which do not look to have had much service and one fellow, seated front and centre, has the rarely seen and more expensive original pattern from 1902 that had deep turn-back cuffs and shoulder reinforcement patches similar to those on service dress jackets.  It was quickly modified to a simpler cut that used less cloth.

Apparently the SA Engineer Corps adopted their own special badge similar to the British type between 1916 and 1918.  To my surprise for a such a relatively small corps they even had their own Signal Service branch.

images from websearch.

Edited 59 minutes ago by FROGSMILE