Aid Post Orderlies

[GARY BROAD]

Hi all, I'm looking to learn from those that know...

I was just reading about a local soldier's Great War service and came across a reference to his excellent work in the aid post, where he was apparently responsible for saving hundreds of lives. Other than this brief reference in a eulogy from his CO I can't find any other mention of him being medically trained (he served in the 3rd Birmingham Battalion).

My question is - what were orderlies ??      Were they soldiers selected for work in the aid post because of their caring nature or were they medically trained - did people enlist as orderlies or were they subsequently selected from the ranks?

To have "saved lives" surely the soldier I'm reading about must have had some level of training, whether in triage or first-line treatment ?  He won the Military Medal (haven't find out why yet) and his CO went on to say: "he will be impossible to replace in the aid post...  ...in a battle he was like a doctor in the treatment of cases...  ...he was a very brave and cool man under shellfire..."

Does that sound like an orderly?  Opinions and guidance would be greatly appreciated!!!

Many thanks, all the very best,

Gary

[Matlock1418]

On 26/09/2024 at 10:19, GARY BROAD said:

Does that sound like an orderly?

My opinion - Yes, it certainly sounds pausible for a medical/nursing orderly.

Many a lowly soldier saved many lives near the front and no doubt also aided recovery in hospitals further behind the lines.

However, without knowing his name and details it would be hard to further gauge his background and training etc.

M

Edited 13 hours ago by Matlock1418

[GARY BROAD]

M...

The man in question was Corporal W.E. Jarvis - regimental number, 16/51 (an early attestation).

The manner of his death is unbelievable after everything he'd been through - the eulogy from his Commanding Officer is wonderful, simply wonderful (what a soldier!)

Please see attached:    I'd love to know if he was a medical orderly, surely he must have been from the words written by two officers after his death...

Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

All the best - Gary B

[Matlock1418]

A tragic cause of death.

Where did the role of/term of Orderly and Aid Post come from?

In my knowledge Nursing/Medical Orderlies were more associated with RAMC, FA. etc. on medical evacuation routes

I know knothing of his military service - He may perhaps have been a battalion Stretcher Bearer and/or at a battalion/regimental aid post???

M

[Bob Davies]

From the picture he looks to be wearing the cap Badge of the 16th service battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment / 3rd Birmingham Pals,

it certainly does not look like an RAMC cap badge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Pals

Screenshot courtesy of the Long Long Trail.  http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-warwickshire-regiment/

I would presume he adapted to the situation as people do.

Therefore he was obviously very good at helping the wounded men and being calm under shell fire was an obvious advantage.

Regards,

Bob.

[Matlock1418]

On 26/09/2024 at 10:19, GARY BROAD said:

He won the Military Medal (haven't find out why yet)

This looks like his MM announcement in the London Gazette

LONDON GAZETTE, 28 JANUARY, 1918, ... 16/51 L./C. W. E. Jarvis, R. War. R. (Kidderminster).

Citations for MM are very few and far betweeen - You might rarely find some sort of account a War Diary and/or in a local newspaper report.

Forum member @Knotty is I believe a 'Kiddie' man

Forum member @Ivor Anderson is very interested in MM and so might perhaps be able to help [may perhaps be able to explain where/what actions that LG might have represented]

1 hour ago, Bob Davies said:

From the picture he looks to be wearing the cap Badge of the 16th service battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment / 3rd Birmingham Pals,

it certainly does not look like an RAMC cap badge.

Agreed on the cap badge, OP offered 3rd Birmingham Pals [16 RWR] and it does look like he was with them to his tragic end.

Corporal's widow's 15/- pw pension under the 1918 RW to his widow, Nellie, 12 George St,, Kidderminster, under 16 RWR

M

Edited 11 hours ago by Matlock1418
typo

[Bob Davies]

Thanks M,

my ancestry.co seems to get worse and worse for finding these men.

from the CWGC we have a Corporal William Edward Jarvis. Died 17 Sept 1918, age 25.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2954699/william-edward-jarvis/

Regards,

Bob.

[Matlock1418]

38 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

from the CWGC we have a Corporal William Edward Jarvis. Died 17 Sept 1918, age 25.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2954699/william-edward-jarvis/

Yes, that would rather seem to be him.

Note: Husband of Nellie May Jarvis (now Carswell), of 133 High St. Cheriton, Kent. = on remarriage she will have lost her widow's pension in favour of a one-off remarriage gratuity equal to one year's pension.

M

[Ivor Anderson]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

LONDON GAZETTE, 28 JANUARY, 1918, ... 16/51 L./C. W. E. Jarvis, R. War. R. (Kidderminster).

  This LG lists awards for 3rd Ypres/Passchendaele for October 1917 https://wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=7358

Edited 11 hours ago by Ivor Anderson

[Knotty]

Thanks for the mention @Matlock1418, I’m seeing @GARY BROAD on Monday, but until then:-

His good lady wife was Nellie May Dewick , born February 1893, and baptised March 2nd. Her address given in the 1901 census….. 35 St. George’s Kidderminster, and 108 Blackwell Street Kidderminster in the 1911 Census.

Married to William Edward on 6 November 1915, age 22 at St Mary’s Church Kidderminster 

They lived  at 12 George Street Kidderminster ( at least Nellie did)

Pension records Williams cause of death ..accidentally killed

[Bob Davies]

This is a very interesting soldier @GARY BROAD and all,

from my reading of 1st and 2nd Ypres, the RAMC units following the Battalions shows us that they are setting up aid posts in the early days.

Has 'William Edward Jarvis' become a help in all this, from his regiment, wherever they were in the early days of the war, possibly not Ypres but anther place?

We will have to look through his Regimental WDs to work this out, also the RAMC units following them.

Orft to my bed now, thanks and regards to you all,Bob.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GARY BROAD]

Morning all,

The first thing that jumps out at you is just how good-a-soldier William Jarvis was...   The comments made by a Lieutenant Colonel (no less) in relation to the loss of a Corporal are amazing.

I only set out on the 'orderly' path because I could find no reference to him having any medical training or pre-attestation experience (he worked for WH Smiths then for a short time ran a pub in Kiddy, so perhaps picked up some basic first aid from that job - you know, stitching head wounds, setting broken bones etc... Kiddy being Kiddy).

I then thought maybe a stretcher bearer, but I'm not sure they were as involved in the aid-post treatment of casualties once they'd rescued them from the field (they may have been, you guys would know far better than me).

I had a look at some old threads and came up with one from 10 years ago:  https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/208722-what-and-who-was-an-orderly/    The one post in particular made me think that an orderly position was the most likely possibility: "A battalion medical officer had two orderlies, one of whom drove the cart with the medical stores. These were also longer-term appointments."

I re-read the wonderful 'Birmingham Pals' by the equally wonderful Terry Carter to see if I could get any further clues - but all that did was make me think "how the hell did ANYONE survive this bl**dy war?!?!"

Thanks for all you help guys, as always you've been brilliant.

Gary 

(See you on Monday Knotty - really looking forward to it bud!!)

[GARY BROAD]

Matlock 1418 - sorry, I cut short the newspaper article about Cpl Jarvis which mentions the aid post and his work therein...

All the best

Gary

[Matlock1418]

43 minutes ago, GARY BROAD said:

I then thought maybe a stretcher bearer, but I'm not sure they were as involved in the aid-post treatment of casualties once they'd rescued them from the field

Ah but that likely saved their life so they could be patched up futher behind in an Aid Post

43 minutes ago, GARY BROAD said:

"A battalion medical officer had two orderlies,

My thought would be that they would be likely RAMC/coming with a RAMC MO but perhaps they could be locally recruited instead/as well??

34 minutes ago, GARY BROAD said:

I cut short the newspaper article about Cpl Jarvis which mentions the aid post and his work therein...

Thanks for that - a very touching tribute.

The article is a bit ambiguous but I think because of the clear repeat mention of the "Battalion" from there [and its reference to "nearly four years" service and the MO's "known him during the six months I have been with the battalion"] and other sources on the balance of probabilities he likely must have been locally recruited from the 16th Bn to work in an Aid Post and quite likely in an Orderly role with the MO rather than a SB.

Clearly, whichever way he helped the men, he did a very good job and was highly valued/praised after his death and he had a very, very unlucky end. 

43 minutes ago, GARY BROAD said:

See you on Monday Knotty

Small world, I didn't know you knew each other. 

We look forward to your [joint?] report - and not just on the beer [Bathams?]

M

Edited 19 minutes ago by Matlock1418

[GARY BROAD]

10 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Ah but that likely saved their life so they could be patched up futher behind in an Aid Post

My thought would be that they would be likely RAMC/coming with a RAMC MO but perhaps they could be locally recruited instead/as well??

Thanks for that - a very touching tribute.

The article is a bit ambiguous but I think because of the clear repeat mention of the "Battalion" from there [and its reference to "nearly four years" service and the MO's "known him during the six months I have been with the battalion"] and other sources on the balance of probabilities he likely must have been locally recruited from the 16th Bn to work in an Aid Post and quite likely in an Orderly role with the MO rather than a SB.

Clearly, whichever way he helped the men, he did a very good job and was highly valued/praised after his death and he had a very, very unlucky end. 

Small world, I didn't know knew each other. 

We look forward to your [joint?] report - and not just on the beer [Bathams?]

M

Ha - unfortunately not beer this time...    it's tea and biscuits !!