Admin Bob Davies Posted Sunday at 21:16 Admin Share Posted Sunday at 21:16 With luck this is a bigger picture of 7, 8, 17 and 28. 17 is not wearing his Sam Browne cross strap, he is also wearing gorgets. In my mind 17 is not Lt Dewi A Williams Army Cyclist Corp. You did not confuse me, I am not looking at 28, I am looking at 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 21:24 Author Share Posted Sunday at 21:24 Hmm you are correct, but look at nose and shape of chin, same shirt tie combo. We can’t see cap badge properly but face shape too similar? Just now, TK1967 said: Hmm you are correct, but look at nose and shape of chin, same shirt tie combo. We can’t see cap badge properly but face shape too similar? Round cheeks too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted Sunday at 21:31 Share Posted Sunday at 21:31 44 minutes ago, TK1967 said: I’m talking about 17 yes. Dewi. Staff cyclist, no gorgets though. Just to be clear - these are the two individuals you think are one and the same? No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owners. Have to say I'm not seeing it if that is the case - but that is just my opinions and others most definately will be available Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted Sunday at 21:32 Share Posted Sunday at 21:32 (edited) 1 hour ago, TK1967 said: Hmm you are correct, but look at nose and shape of chin, same shirt tie combo. We can’t see cap badge properly but face shape too similar? Round cheeks too.. The cap badge of 17, the officer wearing the gorget tabs, is that of an officer appointed to the headquarters staff, the lion surmounting a crown. Edited Sunday at 22:40 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 21:33 Author Share Posted Sunday at 21:33 1 minute ago, PRC said: Just to be clear - these are the two individuals you think are one and the same? No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owners. Have to say I'm not seeing it if that is the case - but that is just my opinions and others most definately will be available Cheers, Peter Well…it’s debatable! Cap badge isn’t quite fitting but is that pixels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 21:36 Author Share Posted Sunday at 21:36 1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said: The cap badge of 17, the officer wearing goth gorget tabs, is that of an officer appointed to the headquarters staff, the lion surmounting a crown. That’s Williams- issue is if that is him 17- you might both be right as can’t see them on 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 21:39 Author Share Posted Sunday at 21:39 1 minute ago, TK1967 said: That’s Williams- issue is if that is him 17- you might both be right as can’t see them on 17. It’s the other 3 reg that’s most important now- we can leave Williams there thankyou- thinking about it he was General HQ Staff not DGRE so it’s just a lookalike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted Sunday at 21:43 Admin Share Posted Sunday at 21:43 Thank you @PRC for your side by side view. 3 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: The cap badge of 17, the officer wearing goth gorget tabs, is that of an officer appointed to the headquarters staff, the lion surmounting a crown. Thank you FROGSMILE. I may have to eat my words and humble pie here, Side by side they do look similar in their faces but not uniform and size of body. If the picture of Williams dressed wearing ACC insignia is an older one then the number 17 could be him later on in years, a bit larger in frame..wearing his new insignia ? Regards, Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted Sunday at 21:45 Share Posted Sunday at 21:45 (edited) 12 minutes ago, TK1967 said: Well…it’s debatable! Cap badge isn’t quite fitting but is that pixels? Could be distortion becuase of focusing and camera lens used, and of course if the pictures weren't taken at the same time then could explain some of the uniform discrepancies, but for me that is why the jury is out. In my opinion superficial resemblance that starts to fall apart on closer inspection. Cap Badge appears to be completely different - as discussed while I've been slowly typing!. No collar badges on officer 17 versus those on the Army Cyclist Officer. Shoulder to belt webbing, (Sam Browne?) on the Army Cyclist Officer. 17 appears to have a broader face, cheek bones more pronounced, ear and chin shape different. Medal ribbands have colours in different proportions - the first medal on Officer 17 has a broader dark stripe in the middle to that worn by the Army Cyclist Officer. So I'd say Williams is not present in the picture of the 40 staff at St Pol associated with the Unknown Warrior project. Cheers, Peter Edited Sunday at 21:46 by PRC Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 21:47 Author Share Posted Sunday at 21:47 Just now, PRC said: Could be distortion becuase of focusing and camera lens used, and of course if the pictures weren't taking at the same time then could explain some of the uniform discrepancies, but for me that is why the jury is out. In my opinion superficial resemblance that starts to fall apart on closer inspection. Cap Badge appears to be completely different - as discussed while I've been slowly typing!. No collar badges on officer 17 versus those on the Army Cyclist Officer. Shoulder to belt webbing, (Sam Browne?) on the Army Cyclist Officer. 17 appears to have a broader face, cheek bones more pronounced, ear and chin shape different. Medal ribbands have colours in different proportions - the first medal on Officer 17 has a broader dark stripe in the middle to that worn by the Army Cyclist Officer. So I'd say Williams is not present in the picture of the 40 staff at St Pol associated with the Unknown Warrior project. Cheers, Peter Agree now thanks Pete- it’s good to get push back 3 minutes ago, Bob Davies said: Thank you @PRC for your side by side view. Thank you FROGSMILE. I may have to eat my words and humble pie here, Side by side they do look similar in their faces but not uniform and size of body. If the picture of Williams dressed wearing ACC insignia is an older one then the number 17 could be him later on in years, a bit larger in frame..wearing his new insignia ? Regards, Bob. All 1920 pics Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted Sunday at 21:48 Share Posted Sunday at 21:48 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Bob Davies said: Thank you @PRC for your side by side view. Thank you FROGSMILE. I may have to eat my words and humble pie here, Side by side they do look similar in their faces but not uniform and size of body. If the picture of Williams dressed wearing ACC insignia is an older one then the number 17 could be him later on in years, a bit larger in frame..wearing his new insignia ? Regards, Bob. Edit: Yes Bob, I do think that he is the same (ACC) officer, i.e. No 17. Edited Sunday at 21:51 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 21:50 Author Share Posted Sunday at 21:50 (edited) On 13/10/2024 at 22:48, FROGSMILE said: I can’t see anything at all that suggests he is the same (ACC) officer. Thoughts on diff pics of same Officer being Williams ACC? Edited 9 minutes ago by TK1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 21:53 Author Share Posted Sunday at 21:53 4 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Edit: Yes Bob, I do think that he is the same (ACC) officer, i.e. No 17. Interesting thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted Sunday at 21:53 Share Posted Sunday at 21:53 13 hours ago, TK1967 said: Thoughts on diff pics of same Officer being Williams ACC? I have edited my reply to Bob. The two photos shown side by side, No17 with gorgets, and the original photo with the ACC insignia, shows the same officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 21:56 Author Share Posted Sunday at 21:56 1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said: I have edited my reply to Bob. The two photos shown side by side, No17 with gorgets, and the original photo with the ACC insignia, shows the same officer. And are these Williams too in your op? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted Sunday at 21:56 Share Posted Sunday at 21:56 Just now, TK1967 said: Thoughts on diff pics of same Officer being Williams ACC? Are you able to post uncropped pictures or at least point us in the direction of where they can be seen. At this level of resolution I'm afraid it would be wishful thinking to say yea or nay - and believe me, if I could I would ! Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 21:58 Author Share Posted Sunday at 21:58 Just now, PRC said: Are you able to post uncropped pictures or at least point us in the direction of where they can be seen. At this level of resolution I'm afraid it would be wishful thinking to say yea or nay - and believe me, if I could I would ! Cheers, Peter They are distant pics zoomed I can’t improve but understand difficulty- it’s a DGRE event Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted Sunday at 21:58 Share Posted Sunday at 21:58 Just now, TK1967 said: And are these Williams too in your op? I haven’t considered anyone’s name, just compared the two photos of the same individual, one of which shows ACC insignia as identified by Corporal Punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 22:00 Author Share Posted Sunday at 22:00 Sorry again- it must be Williams as he is only ACC Officer, staff or otherwise, at St Pol at time . The standing pics are same timeframe too. 2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: I haven’t considered anyone’s name, just compared the two photos of the same individual, one of which shows ACC insignia as identified by Corporal Punishment. Just now, TK1967 said: Sorry again- it must be Williams as he is only ACC Officer, staff or otherwise, at St Pol at time . The standing pics are same timeframe too. He has arm band though on other arm to seated pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 22:02 Author Share Posted Sunday at 22:02 (edited) On 13/10/2024 at 23:00, TK1967 said: Sorry again- it must be Williams as he is only ACC Officer, staff or otherwise, at St Pol at time . The standing pics are same timeframe too. He has arm band though on other arm to seated pic Defo same Officer just diff angles at close to same time On 13/10/2024 at 23:02, TK1967 said: Defo same Officer just diff angles at close to same time Better can see top of cap- is that stick too? Edited 8 minutes ago by TK1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted Sunday at 22:04 Share Posted Sunday at 22:04 (edited) On 13/10/2024 at 23:00, TK1967 said: He has arm band though on other arm to seated pic Yes it’s the same officer with different insignia with a time gap between the two as suggested by Bob. PRC has got placing photos side by side off to a fine art and he’s done so again here. I’d happily wager with confidence that they are the same officer with a period between and he’s changed his insignia and no longer wearing the armlet. As well as strikingly matching facial features, he has the same ball buttons (especially noticeable on the shoulder straps) and even wears his shirt and tie in the exact same way - a typical habit for a man in uniform each day. Edited 22 hours ago by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 22:10 Author Share Posted Sunday at 22:10 2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Yes it’s the same officer with different insignia with a time gap between the two as suggested by Bob. PRC has got placing photos side by side off to a fine art and he’s done so again here. I’d happily wager with confidence that they are the same officer with a gap between and he’s changed his insignia and no longer wearing the armlet. The standing pics of I think the same Officer is around the same month as 17 pic taken- that’s what’s confusing . The sitting pic could be in the 3 months before 17 pic or a month after, no more. All 1920. Just now, TK1967 said: The standing pics of I think the same Officer is around the same month as 17 pic taken- that’s what’s confusing . The sitting pic could be in the 3 months before 17 pic or a month after, no more. All 1920. Based on ACC movements in and out of St Pol 1920 and rough date of Nov 1920 for 17 group pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 22:15 Author Share Posted Sunday at 22:15 9 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Yes it’s the same officer with different insignia with a time gap between the two as suggested by Bob. PRC has got placing photos side by side off to a fine art and he’s done so again here. I’d happily wager with confidence that they are the same officer with a gap between and he’s changed his insignia and no longer wearing the armlet. Perhaps most simple explanation he just didn’t wear Arm band and Uncle Sam for 17 pic and his ACC badge distorted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen4256 Posted Sunday at 22:19 Share Posted Sunday at 22:19 Worth bearing mind the Army Cyclist Corps was disbanded in April 1920 so unlikely that anyone would still be badged ACC in November 1920 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK1967 Posted Sunday at 22:22 Author Share Posted Sunday at 22:22 (edited) Interesting- he arrived July 1920 sitting pic soon after but changed badge by 17. and Standing pics in Nov? Edited Sunday at 22:23 by TK1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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