Uniform identification??

[TK1967]

1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said:

Why, I don’t understand your purpose with that?  The insignia is really indecipherable other than to say that all three appear to be individual units going by the vague, but different shapes, and with or without collar badges that where present also differ.  The only thing they have in common is a penchant for pale coloured shirts and the officers unstructured versions of resilient trench cap.  Is this just your curiosity or are you attempting to achieve something meaningful?  To be honest these are among the worst images that I think I’ve ever seen anyone expect to get any information from.

A ‘hunch’ based on what exactly?

I can find two Officers in DLI so far in DGRE army list Nov 1920- temp Maj J F Gardiner and Lt O J Bowmaker,

[TK1967]

13 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Why, I don’t understand your purpose with that?  The insignia is really indecipherable other than to say that all three appear to be individual units going by the vague, but different shapes, and with or without collar badges that where present also differ.  The only thing they have in common is a penchant for pale coloured shirts and the officers unstructured versions of resilient trench cap.  Is this just your curiosity or are you attempting to achieve something meaningful?  To be honest these are among the worst images that I think I’ve ever seen anyone expect to get any information from.

A ‘hunch’ based on what exactly?

I’m descended from the Forster family of Bamburgh Castle.

[FROGSMILE]

6 minutes ago, TK1967 said:

I can find two Officers in DLI so far in DGRE army list Nov 1920- temp Maj J F Gardiner and Lt O J Bowmaker,

And no doubt many other regiments too.  If we’d been looking at Victorian full dress uniform, or Indian Army it might’ve been different, but we’re looking at a time when the uniform was largely universal and it was only insignia that was regimentally different, plus if you were really lucky maybe some black buttons.  It’s verging on the silly now that you still think you can identify individuals from such appalling fragments of 100 year (plus) old images that in their original format would’ve been excellent.  Silk purse and sows ear comes to mind and whilst I try where I can to help with such inquiries I’m not prepared to waste any more time on such a hopeless task as this one, so I’m bowing out.

Edited Monday at 09:59 by FROGSMILE

[TK1967]

1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said:

And no doubt many other regiments too.  If we’d been looking at Victorian full dress uniform, or Indian Army it might’ve been different, but we’re looking at a time when the uniform was largely universal and it was only insignia that was regimentally different, plus if you were really lucky maybe some black buttons.  It’s verging on the silly now that you still think you can identify individuals from such appalling fragments of 100 year plus images that in their original format would’ve been excellent.  Silk purse and sows ear comes to mind and whilst I try where I can to help with such inquiries I’m not prepared to waste any more time on such a hopeless task as this one, so I’m bowing out.

You’ve been very helpful believe it or not.

[FROGSMILE]

42 minutes ago, TK1967 said:

You’ve been very helpful believe it or not.

Unless you can come up with some better photographs I believe it’s gone as far as it can go with any certainty.

Edited Monday at 10:42 by FROGSMILE

[Muerrisch]

5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

And no doubt many other regiments too.  If we’d been looking at Victorian full dress uniform, or Indian Army it might’ve been different, but we’re looking at a time when the uniform was largely universal and it was only insignia that was regimentally different, plus if you were really lucky maybe some black buttons.  It’s verging on the silly now that you still think you can identify individuals from such appalling fragments of 100 year (plus) old images that in their original format would’ve been excellent.  Silk purse and sows ear comes to mind and whilst I try where I can to help with such inquiries I’m not prepared to waste any more time on such a hopeless task as this one, so I’m bowing out.

Yes, good decision.

Angels dancing on pinheads spring to mind.

Shakespear wrote

"sicklied o'er with the pale cast of  thought"

[CorporalPunishment]

43 minutes ago, TK1967 said:

I have a hunch it’s Durham Light Infantry

7 and 28 could possibly be either Durham Light Infantry or King's Shropshire Light Infantry but 8 is definitely neither of them.     Pete.

[TK1967]

4 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said:

7 and 28 could possibly be either Durham Light Infantry or King's Shropshire Light Infantry but 8 is definitely neither of them.     Pete.

That’s very helpful Pete I was fixed on them being same reg as together in another pic but I think you are right as I’ve only found two DLI at St Pol then - hunch 8 is S Lancs Reg, don’t ask me why 

[PRC]

While I wait for the original images to be posted so that constructive comment can be offered and new lines of enquiry opened up, I’ll stick with addressing  the outstanding  question of Lieutenant Williams military career prior to the Army Cyclists Corps.

Fresh day, fresh eyes, less brain dead and with three cups of tea inside me I took another look.

He still remains elusive.  Checked both Q4 and Q2 versions of the 1919 Quarterly List Of British Army Officers and he doesn’t even appear in the index. However not a source I’m overly familiar with, and there seems to be a lot less D.Williams, with or without middle initials, than in the monthly lists.

There is no obvious birth registrations in England & Wales in a time period that would have seen him in the Army in 1921 other than perhaps a James Dewi Williams registered in the Narbeth District in Q1 1902.

No obvious candidates on the Censuses of England & Wales either – and that includes 1921.

Expanding the search there is a 32 year old Dewi James Williams, single and a Teacher, who married in Durban, South Africa on the 23rd December 1922. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DR29-69G?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKDCB-VFJ&action=view&cc=2063749

 Could be a total coincidence but the death of a Dewi James Williams, born 26th December 1889, was recorded in the Cardiganshire North District in Q2 1974. But I’m not spotting anything in the probate calendar, or a newspaper obituary in the British Newspaper Archive – the latter might have fleshed out his Army Service.

I tried going back to the January 1915 Monthly Army List to see how he was described then, (based on the information in the July 1917 List that his Army Cyclist Corps seniority dated from the 11th January 1915 – he’d been commissioned earlier) – but he isn’t even listed.

What there is in the June 1915 British Army Monthly List is a 2nd Lieutenant D.J. Williams, a Territorial Force Officer, who has three appearances in the List.

• Column 1562: 2nd Lieutenant, Army Cyclist Corps, attached from 4th Battalion, South Wales Borderers, with seniority from the 11th January 1915. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/119536333
• Column 1129a: 2nd Lieutenant, Brecknockshire Battalion (Territorial), South Wales Borderers, seniority from the 29th October 1914, not assigned to any particular line Battalion. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/119533081
• Column 1129c: 2nd Lieutenant, 4th Battalion, with seniority from the 1st September 1914. Attached Cyclist Corps. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/119533093

Which I think means he was commissioned into the 4th Battalion, South Wales Borderers with effect from the 1st September 1914, (and would have purchased a uniform styled accordingly), was then attached to the Brecknockshire Battalion effective 29th October 1914, and was then further attached to the Army Cyclist Corps with effect from the 11th January 1915.

Would the 4th Battalion, South Wales Borders be likely wearers of Ball Buttons, @FROGSMILE ?   

Cheers,
Peter

[TK1967]

4 minutes ago, PRC said:

While I wait for the original images to be posted so that constructive comment can be offered and new lines of enquiry opened up, I’ll stick with addressing  the outstanding  question of Lieutenant Williams military career prior to the Army Cyclists Corps.

Fresh day, fresh eyes, less brain dead and with three cups of tea inside me I took another look.

He still remains elusive.  Checked both Q4 and Q2 versions of the 1919 Quarterly List Of British Army Officers and he doesn’t even appear in the index. However not a source I’m overly familiar with, and there seems to be a lot less D.Williams, with or without middle initials, than in the monthly lists.

There is no obvious birth registrations in England & Wales in a time period that would have seen him in the Army in 1921 other than perhaps a James Dewi Williams registered in the Narbeth District in Q1 1902.

No obvious candidates on the Censuses of England & Wales either – and that includes 1921.

Expanding the search there is a 32 year old Dewi James Williams, single and a Teacher, who married in Durban, South Africa on the 23rd December 1922. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DR29-69G?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKDCB-VFJ&action=view&cc=2063749

 Could be a total coincidence but the death of a Dewi James Williams, born 26th December 1889, was recorded in the Cardiganshire North District in Q2 1974. But I’m not spotting anything in the probate calendar, or a newspaper obituary in the British Newspaper Archive – the latter might have fleshed out his Army Service.

I tried going back to the January 1915 Monthly Army List to see how he was described then, (based on the information in the July 1917 List that his Army Cyclist Corps seniority dated from the 11th January 1915 – he’d been commissioned earlier) – but he isn’t even listed.

What there is in the June 1915 British Army Monthly List is a 2nd Lieutenant D.J. Williams, a Territorial Force Officer, who has three appearances in the List.

• Column 1562: 2nd Lieutenant, Army Cyclist Corps, attached from 4th Battalion, South Wales Borderers, with seniority from the 11th January 1915. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/119536333
• Column 1129a: 2nd Lieutenant, Brecknockshire Battalion (Territorial), South Wales Borderers, seniority from the 29th October 1914, not assigned to any particular line Battalion. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/119533081
• Column 1129c: 2nd Lieutenant, 4th Battalion, with seniority from the 1st September 1914. Attached Cyclist Corps. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/119533093

Which I think means he was commissioned into the 4th Battalion, South Wales Borderers with effect from the 1st September 1914, (and would have purchased a uniform styled accordingly), was then attached to the Brecknockshire Battalion effective 29th October 1914, and was then further attached to the Army Cyclist Corps with effect from the 11th January 1915.

Would the 4th Battalion, South Wales Borders be likely wearers of Ball Buttons, @FROGSMILE ?   

Cheers,
Peter

Sounds right Pete

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, PRC said:

Would the 4th Battalion, South Wales Borders be likely wearers of Ball Buttons, @FROGSMILE ?

No Peter, the only chance of that would’ve been if they had been a unit that styled themselves as black buttoned rifles, and even then only if they’d favoured the KRRC pattern of dress.  Instead they wore scarlet with the same green facings as the rest of the corps of South Wales Borderers, and in drab service dress similarly.  Their officers’ pattern insignia can be seen below.

images via websearch.

Edited Monday at 16:04 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, PRC said:

While I wait for the original images to be posted so that constructive comment can be offered and new lines of enquiry opened up, I’ll stick with addressing  the outstanding  question of Lieutenant Williams military career prior to the Army Cyclists Corps.

Fresh day, fresh eyes, less brain dead and with three cups of tea inside me I took another look.

He still remains elusive.  Checked both Q4 and Q2 versions of the 1919 Quarterly List Of British Army Officers and he doesn’t even appear in the index. However not a source I’m overly familiar with, and there seems to be a lot less D.Williams, with or without middle initials, than in the monthly lists.

There is no obvious birth registrations in England & Wales in a time period that would have seen him in the Army in 1921 other than perhaps a James Dewi Williams registered in the Narbeth District in Q1 1902.

No obvious candidates on the Censuses of England & Wales either – and that includes 1921.

Expanding the search there is a 32 year old Dewi James Williams, single and a Teacher, who married in Durban, South Africa on the 23rd December 1922. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DR29-69G?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKDCB-VFJ&action=view&cc=2063749

 Could be a total coincidence but the death of a Dewi James Williams, born 26th December 1889, was recorded in the Cardiganshire North District in Q2 1974. But I’m not spotting anything in the probate calendar, or a newspaper obituary in the British Newspaper Archive – the latter might have fleshed out his Army Service.

I tried going back to the January 1915 Monthly Army List to see how he was described then, (based on the information in the July 1917 List that his Army Cyclist Corps seniority dated from the 11th January 1915 – he’d been commissioned earlier) – but he isn’t even listed.

What there is in the June 1915 British Army Monthly List is a 2nd Lieutenant D.J. Williams, a Territorial Force Officer, who has three appearances in the List.

• Column 1562: 2nd Lieutenant, Army Cyclist Corps, attached from 4th Battalion, South Wales Borderers, with seniority from the 11th January 1915. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/119536333
• Column 1129a: 2nd Lieutenant, Brecknockshire Battalion (Territorial), South Wales Borderers, seniority from the 29th October 1914, not assigned to any particular line Battalion. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/119533081
• Column 1129c: 2nd Lieutenant, 4th Battalion, with seniority from the 1st September 1914. Attached Cyclist Corps. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/119533093

Which I think means he was commissioned into the 4th Battalion, South Wales Borderers with effect from the 1st September 1914, (and would have purchased a uniform styled accordingly), was then attached to the Brecknockshire Battalion effective 29th October 1914, and was then further attached to the Army Cyclist Corps with effect from the 11th January 1915.

Would the 4th Battalion, South Wales Borders be likely wearers of Ball Buttons, @FROGSMILE ?   

Cheers,
Peter

Depending upon his home address prewar it seems possible that he fell within the recruiting catchment area of the Pembrokeshire Yeomanry, which was indeed styled as hussars.  According to the enclosed painting of an officer in SD, the buttons match with the ACC suggesting at least, a potential transfer at some point.  The usual ACC buttons were of conventional design, embossed with the corps emblem, and made from gilding metal.

Edited Monday at 16:06 by FROGSMILE

[TK1967]

9 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Depending upon his home address prewar it seems possible that he fell within the recruiting catchment area of the Pembrokeshire Yeomanry, which was indeed styled as hussars.  According to the enclosed painting of an officer in SD, the buttons match with Williams.

So that could be the badge he wore in group pic, instead of ACC? It looks smaller

[TK1967]

[FROGSMILE]

9 minutes ago, TK1967 said:

Please stop going in repetetive circles, I’ve already explained that it’s a staff badge, which matches entirely with his gorget tabs.  If I wasn’t sure about something I’d have said perhaps, maybe, or might be.

[TK1967]

11 minutes ago, TK1967 said:

So that could be the badge he wore in group pic, instead of ACC? It looks smaller

As you are all doing so well here’s another challenge and I don’t expect miracles! I’ve got a list of 8 Officers- all act Majors. Do any fit uniforms on these 6 Officers on the second line from front of pic- no.s 21, 22, 24,27,28,29??

I think Gardiner is 28, the rest 

2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Please stop going in repetetive circles, I’ve already explained that it’s a staff badge, which matches entirely with his gorget tabs.  If I wasn’t sure about something I’d have said perhaps, maybe, or might be.

Ah OK- I didn’t get what you meant that they also wore staff badges not just Reg badges- so that makes complete sense

[TK1967]

On 12/10/2024 at 22:02, PRC said:

Don't know if it will help but have added some dreaded numbers Starting from the top left makes him 28 out of 40.

No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owners.

On that basis the other two officers from the OP with "white shirts and gold coloured ties" and with softer pattern hats could potentially be 7 and 8.

Fundamentally nothing to do with a unit based at St. Pol but everything to do with the Unknown Warrior.

Can't help but think there is probably something on Archive org that will detail members of this committee but unfortunately still currently down following the attack.

Cheers,
Peter

Best quality

[TK1967]

1 minute ago, TK1967 said:

Best quality

For ease the uniforms I am looking for on Officers pic no,21, 21, 22, 24,27,28,29 

are from;

London Reg

Northumberland F

Middlesex

Duke of Cornwall LI

RE

RA

Essex

Durham

if you also see the uniform on another Officer in pic not on second line-let me know!

[TK1967]

15 minutes ago, TK1967 said:

As you are all doing so well here’s another challenge and I don’t expect miracles! I’ve got a list of 8 Officers- all act Majors. Do any fit uniforms on these 6 Officers on the second line from front of pic- no.s 21, 22, 24,27,28,29??

I think Gardiner is 28, the rest 

Ah OK- I didn’t get what you meant that they also wore staff badges not just Reg badges- so that makes complete sense

If any one can locate photos of the 8 officers listed- to match to St Pol pic that would be great and much easier too! I haven’t had any success so far

[TK1967]

3 minutes ago, TK1967 said:

If any one can locate photos of the 8 officers listed- to match to St Pol pic that would be great and much easier too! I haven’t had any success so far

Also a pic of Lt W H Mumford RE (act Lt Col 1920/21

I’m researching the DGRE’s work in F&F 1920-21 FYI.

[TK1967]

3 minutes ago, TK1967 said:

Also a pic of Lt W H Mumford RE (act Lt Col 1920/21

I’m researching the DGRE’s work in F&F 1920-21 FYI.

Putting faces to names - the difficulty is that despite it being in peacetime there are very little public photos from 1920-21, no doubt in part due to the nature of the exhumation work.

Edited Monday at 12:25 by TK1967

[TK1967]

3 hours ago, PRC said:

While I wait for the original images to be posted so that constructive comment can be offered and new lines of enquiry opened up, I’ll stick with addressing  the outstanding  question of Lieutenant Williams military career prior to the Army Cyclists Corps.

Fresh day, fresh eyes, less brain dead and with three cups of tea inside me I took another look.

He still remains elusive.  Checked both Q4 and Q2 versions of the 1919 Quarterly List Of British Army Officers and he doesn’t even appear in the index. However not a source I’m overly familiar with, and there seems to be a lot less D.Williams, with or without middle initials, than in the monthly lists.

There is no obvious birth registrations in England & Wales in a time period that would have seen him in the Army in 1921 other than perhaps a James Dewi Williams registered in the Narbeth District in Q1 1902.

No obvious candidates on the Censuses of England & Wales either – and that includes 1921.

Expanding the search there is a 32 year old Dewi James Williams, single and a Teacher, who married in Durban, South Africa on the 23rd December 1922. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DR29-69G?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKDCB-VFJ&action=view&cc=2063749

 Could be a total coincidence but the death of a Dewi James Williams, born 26th December 1889, was recorded in the Cardiganshire North District in Q2 1974. But I’m not spotting anything in the probate calendar, or a newspaper obituary in the British Newspaper Archive – the latter might have fleshed out his Army Service.

I tried going back to the January 1915 Monthly Army List to see how he was described then, (based on the information in the July 1917 List that his Army Cyclist Corps seniority dated from the 11th January 1915 – he’d been commissioned earlier) – but he isn’t even listed.

What there is in the June 1915 British Army Monthly List is a 2nd Lieutenant D.J. Williams, a Territorial Force Officer, who has three appearances in the List.

• Column 1562: 2nd Lieutenant, Army Cyclist Corps, attached from 4th Battalion, South Wales Borderers, with seniority from the 11th January 1915. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/119536333
• Column 1129a: 2nd Lieutenant, Brecknockshire Battalion (Territorial), South Wales Borderers, seniority from the 29th October 1914, not assigned to any particular line Battalion. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/119533081
• Column 1129c: 2nd Lieutenant, 4th Battalion, with seniority from the 1st September 1914. Attached Cyclist Corps. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/119533093

Which I think means he was commissioned into the 4th Battalion, South Wales Borderers with effect from the 1st September 1914, (and would have purchased a uniform styled accordingly), was then attached to the Brecknockshire Battalion effective 29th October 1914, and was then further attached to the Army Cyclist Corps with effect from the 11th January 1915.

Would the 4th Battalion, South Wales Borders be likely wearers of Ball Buttons, @FROGSMILE ?   

Cheers,
Peter

May 1921 Army list

[owen4256]

My Notes on Lt D J Williams - who can't be the Williams in the  photo since he qualified for the 1915-15 star

WILLIAMS David James (Dewi) Lieutenant  BA Born on the 26^th December 1889 in Swansea, Glamorgan, the son of  Mary Anne Thomas and the Reverend David Rowland Williams. Commissioned into the 4^th Battalion, The South Wales Borderers on the 1^st  September 1914, he was seconded to the 13^th Divisional Cyclist Company on the 11^th January 1915. Williams transferred to the Army Cyclist Corps on the 9^th June 1915, sailing for Gallipoli as a Platoon Commander with the 13^th Divisional Cyclist Company on the 17^th July 1915. He was promoted Lieutenant on the 23^rd August 1915.  After the war he became a teacher. He married his first wife Wendy in Durban, South Africa on the 23^rd December 1922. Later became Assistant Director of Education in Aberystwyth, retiring  as Deputy Director of Education for Cardiganshire in 1950.  He married again to Annie Llewelyn Lewis in 1961 and died on the 4^th April 1974. Address 48 Portland Street, Aberystwyth  WO 339/88937 His address on the 1939 census is the same as the address on his MIC.

By disbandment in April 1920, the Corps was already down to 46 all ranks so it would be highly unusual if any officers were still badged ACC even in July 1920 let alone November 1920 or May 1921.

It would be helpful to see the whole of the photo of the ACC Captain with the armlet  since it clearly has NCOs in the background and their cap badges might shed some light on the location and group. I'm not clear if this photo is said to be 1920 at St Pol with DGRE or not.

Attached a photo of David James  (Dewi) Williams late ACC  taken in 1965.  Posted to generate a fresh round of its definitely him /probably him /possibly him /absolutely not him.  My vote is absolutely not since  D J Williams had the  1914-15 star and would certainly have had that ribbon up as well as the pair. 

[FROGSMILE]

22 minutes ago, owen4256 said:

My Notes on Lt D J Williams - who can't be the Williams in the  photo since he qualified for the 1915-15 star

WILLIAMS David James (Dewi) Lieutenant  BA Born on the 26^th December 1889 in Swansea, Glamorgan, the son of  Mary Anne Thomas and the Reverend David Rowland Williams. Commissioned into the 4^th Battalion, The South Wales Borderers on the 1^st  September 1914, he was seconded to the 13^th Divisional Cyclist Company on the 11^th January 1915. Williams transferred to the Army Cyclist Corps on the 9^th June 1915, sailing for Gallipoli as a Platoon Commander with the 13^th Divisional Cyclist Company on the 17^th July 1915. He was promoted Lieutenant on the 23^rd August 1915.  After the war he became a teacher. He married his first wife Wendy in Durban, South Africa on the 23^rd December 1922. Later became Assistant Director of Education in Aberystwyth, retiring  as Deputy Director of Education for Cardiganshire in 1950.  He married again to Annie Llewelyn Lewis in 1961 and died on the 4^th April 1974. Address 48 Portland Street, Aberystwyth  WO 339/88937 His address on the 1939 census is the same as the address on his MIC.

By disbandment in April 1920, the Corps was already down to 46 all ranks so it would be highly unusual if any officers were still badged ACC even in July 1920 let alone November 1920 or May 1921.

It would be helpful to see the whole of the photo of the ACC Captain with the armlet  since it clearly has NCOs in the background and their cap badges might shed some light on the location and group. I'm not clear if this photo is said to be 1920 at St Pol with DGRE or not.

Attached a photo of David James  (Dewi) Williams late ACC  taken in 1965.  Posted to generate a fresh round of its definitely him /probably him /possibly him /absolutely not him.  My vote is absolutely not since  D J Williams had the  1914-15 star and would certainly have had that ribbon up as well as the pair. 

I think you’re right that it’s probably not him Owen given your points about the medals, and the oddity of the insignia if the date quoted for the photo was correct, although it would be good to see his face side-by-side with the two images of the seated officer.  The officer is definitely wearing the ACC badge in one photo and a staff badge in the other.

Incidentally the officer in the staff list posted just above is very junior.  He is substantively only a second lieutenant, and temporary lieutenant, and temporary captain.

Edited Monday at 14:37 by FROGSMILE

[TK1967]

57 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I think you’re right that it’s probably not him Owen given your points about the medals, and the oddity of the insignia if the date quoted for the photo was correct, although it would be good to see his face side-by-side with the two images of the seated officer.  The officer is definitely wearing the ACC badge in one photo and a staff badge in the other.

Incidentally the officer in the staff list posted just above is very junior.  He is substantively only a second lieutenant, and temporary lieutenant, and temporary captain.

He looks around 31 which he was in 1920.

I can see him in Owen’s pic- fatter cheeks gone and nose more bulbous at end but similar shape.

Dewi was son of a Minister, a number of DGRE Officers seem to be sons of the manse. You can see the interest in the work if religious. 
 

He was technically very junior Officer but a lot of acting up ranks given at that time to temps.

 

The fact Dewi is listed 1921 at St Pol when only a smallish staff seems too much of a coincidence to say no? Could the ribbon be logistics- still at home didn’t put on uniform before going out in July 1920?

 

Initial D A instead of D j is problematic- Army list repeating error?

Edited Monday at 15:28 by TK1967