Northern Soul Posted 27 June , 2003 Share Posted 27 June , 2003 I asked this question on the old WFA forum but never got a response. Hopefully someone may be able to help this time. Soldiers Died records that 3 officers and 26 other ranks of the Inland Water Transport, Royal Engineers died at sea on February 26th, 1918. All are commemorated on the Basra Memorial and a considerable number are described as "Buried at Sea". Does anyone know the circumstances of their deaths; it seems to me that a ship/transport has been lost or that there has been some sort of marine catastrophe but I can't find any details. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 27 June , 2003 Share Posted 27 June , 2003 I don't know if it the same incident, but on that day transport ship "Glenart Castle" was torpedoed in the Bristol Channel and lost, along with 162 lives. Quite why the names - if this is the incident - should be on the Basra Memorial beats me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 27 June , 2003 Share Posted 27 June , 2003 Also , there seems to be an indication that H.M Drifter "Golden Rule" may have met with an accident on that day. But what a "drifter " is , I do not know but it sounds vaguely "Inland Waterways". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 27 June , 2003 Share Posted 27 June , 2003 Chris The CWGC memorials to the missing include the names of those lost en route to or from a theatre of war provided they were from a unit allocated to that theatre. Therefore the Basra Memorial could have some names lost at sea. Ian A drifter is a type of fishing boat used often by the navy for coastal patrol. It gets its name from the fact that the fishermen let out a very long net and just drift letting fish swim into it. This is opposed to 'trawling' where a net is towed behind a moving boat to scoop up fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Seymour Posted 27 June , 2003 Share Posted 27 June , 2003 The "GLENART CASTLE", had been taken over by the British government as a hospital ship. On Feb. 26th 1918, she was torpedoed and sunk by the German submarine UC-56, ten miles W. of Lundy Island, on vovage from Newport to Brest to embark wounded. Andy, some more information would be helpful i.e. some names of those involved etc. Alan Seymour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 27 June , 2003 Share Posted 27 June , 2003 The RE dead on this day consist of a Lt, 2nd Lt, various corporals and a group of sappers. Seems like the crew of a vessel rather than a group of wounded. Inland Waterways people not very likely to be wounded in dozens ? Perhaps a vessel operating in the Gulf or on the Tigris, Euphrates ? Perhaps the crew of this Drifter "Golden Rule " ? I think they are described as "died at sea " rather than buried ? Or perhaps on the "Glenart Castle" to go to Brest and then on to Mesopotamia on another vessel or overland ? Royal Engineers Museum next stop ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 27 June , 2003 Share Posted 27 June , 2003 Surprised to note that Basra was the base of the second largest Inland Water Transport operation outside France - some 465 officers and 1394 men controlling large numbers of craft and river transport up to Baghdad and docks in Basra, Salonika , Egypt etc. Pretty convinced that the dead of 26.02.18 are the crew of a lost boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Seymour Posted 27 June , 2003 Share Posted 27 June , 2003 Further to my reply above I've managed to pick up 26 other ranks from the SDGW-CD and checked some of their details listed in the CWGC Debt of Honour listing. Of the 26, some were buried at sea, no mention is made of a ship being lost in the historic information section. This may suggest that they were on board a Hospital ship being evacuated out of the region and died whilst on board from their injuries or illness? "The History of the Corps of Royal Engineers" Vol. VII mentions in Chapter IX, that Basra, was a large dockyard most of which had been constructed by the Inland Water Transport R.E. from Sept. 1916. Also there were practically no regular soldiers in the formation, and the officer cadres were immediately strengthened by the inclusion of many civilian experts from England. It also mentions the complete story of the development and achievements of the I.W.T. is told in " The I.W.T. in Mesopotamia" by Brigadier-General Hughes's Alan Seymour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 28 June , 2003 Share Posted 28 June , 2003 Just to follow up Alan's post, the Inland Waterways Transport Directorate was organised by Commander GH Holland CIG, DSO retd, Royal Indian Marine and Marine Superintendant of the London and North Western Railway. The vocabulary for the IWT varied depending upon theatre but principally included steam tugs, self propelled barges, water and bridge barges, salvage barges, barracks barges, hospital barges , dredgers and dumb barges or lighters. Although not pertinent to this particular post, information can also be found about the IWTD in Henniker's "Transportation on the Western Front" and the Institute of Royal Engineers "Work of the RE in the European War 1914-19 (Miscellaneous)." It seems to me that Alan's suggestion is the more likely in the absence of any major shipping disaster on that date. Terry Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 28 June , 2003 Share Posted 28 June , 2003 Yes, it does seem that they died at sea and were subsequently buried at sea but is it not extraordinary that so many from the same unit died on the same date ? Perhaps some kind of catastrophic accident on board ship but which did not result in the loss of the vessel ? Interesting that SDGW shows no deaths in this unit on the days each side of this date which might support an accident rather than sickness. 2nd Lt James Scott is shown as drowned on that same date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 28 June , 2003 Author Share Posted 28 June , 2003 The following is a contemporary newspaper report (apologies for not having posetd it last time! "Further enquiries by the relatives of Sapper Ernest Allday (misprinted Hallday in our last issue), of the Royal Engineers (Transport Branch), who was reported missing and believed drowned, have revealed nothing further as to his fate, though it is still hoped that he may have been picked up by some passing vessel when his boat was lost, and that he may have landed somewhere in the Mediterranean." I don't know about the accuracy of the location being described as the Med, but it does specify that he was drowned when his boat was lost, so perhaps the fate of H.M. Drifter "Golden Rule" deserves closer attention. If anyone can pinpoint where this ship was lost I'd be very grateful. Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 28 June , 2003 Share Posted 28 June , 2003 Andy, A most interesting mystery .This seems to move us forward a bit. Perhaps their vessel was going out to or returning from Mesopotamia and was lost in the Med. If this is the case subsequently describing most of these men as "buried at sea" seems to be rather strange use of this terminology.. Interesting that not a single entry for these men re. the Basra Memorial seems to refer to the possibility of them being " lost on H.M ship ..... " or similar. I think we will have to "rule" out the Drifter "Golden Rule" as a red herring (!) since a H Scoggins (Engineman R.N.R ) who served in her, and died on 26.02.18 , is buried in Suffolk ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Marshall Posted 1 July , 2003 Share Posted 1 July , 2003 There is no mention of H.M.S. "Golden Rule" in Dictionary of Disasters as Sea During the age of Steam. Where does the information come from about an incident with this vessel? Drifters were often used by the Navy for minesweeping/clearing especially in the Med I have several casualties to men serving on them but they are R.N.R, R.N.V.R. and similar, not yet anY with the I.W.T.R.E. Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 1 July , 2003 Share Posted 1 July , 2003 Andy , If you see my posting above you will see that we will have to forget "Golden Rule". There was just a coincidental death of one of her crew on the date in question. So we seem to have a lost vessel but no intimation of the name at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 1 July , 2003 Share Posted 1 July , 2003 I don't know if this has any link with the incident but HMS Raglan was sunk by the "Goeben" on 20th January 1918. Some of the casualties from the ship were found by divers from HMS Edgar and were buried on Thasos on the 26th February 1918. These remains were then reburied at Lancashire Landing Cemetery after the Armistice. Just a thought but if there were men from Inland Waterways lost on this vessel then they may have been commemorated with the date of the 26th by mistake. Regards Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 4 July , 2003 Share Posted 4 July , 2003 Just realised that the article which said that the casualties were buried on Thasos on February 26th must be wrong as I have just read something that says January 26th. That makes more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robwilliams Posted 4 July , 2003 Share Posted 4 July , 2003 I have just bought some medals to an ERA in the RNR (15 Star trio). The group also has an army GSM bar "Iraq" to a 2/Lt RE. Apparently the army needed men with experience of marine engines in the IWT and so offered him a commission. He served throughout the uprising 1919-21. I'm looking forward to researching this group and there are some useful pointers above. Thanks, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 5 July , 2003 Share Posted 5 July , 2003 I have sent an email to the R.E Museum hoping they can identify the vessel these men were lost on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludovica Posted 26 February , 2004 Share Posted 26 February , 2004 The "GLENART CASTLE", had been taken over by the British government as a hospital ship. On Feb. 26th 1918, she was torpedoed and sunk by the German submarine UC-56, ten miles W. of Lundy Island, on vovage from Newport to Brest to embark wounded. Andy, some more information would be helpful i.e. some names of those involved etc. Alan Seymour Re "Glenart Castle" There is a wealth of information about the "Glenart Castle" at http://www.ilfsac.org.uk/ Including the diary of the Matron, Katy Beaufoy My interest is that my 3rd cousin (x3 removed) George Wilfred Clasby also died in this incident Name: CLASBY, GEORGE WILFRED Initials: G W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Painter Regiment: Mercantile Marine Unit Text: H.M.H.S. "Glenart Castle" (Southampton) Age: 33 Date of Death: 26/02/1918 Additional information: Son of Stephen Charles and Jane Clasby, of 41, Kingsley Rd., Southampton. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Cemetery: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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