bcerha Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 Does anyone know if Regiments were still using buglers in WW1? If so does anyone know if there was a regulation pattern for the military bugle at that time and if Highams of Manchester were an accredited manufacturer? Can find very little on the Internet on this subject. many thanks David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 The Herefordshire Regiment photograph below shows men who were bound for foreign service in 1914. The three standing on left back row were Buglers W. Stemp, P. Lucas and F. Baird and Bugler W. Clarke appears kneeling right of the drum, in the centre of photograph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 Strictly speaking, other than in Light Infantry and Rifles, a man who blows a bugle is a drummer. If you look at a Corps of Drums on parade, all except Bass Drummer have a slung bugle. Those in the Corps without a drum are trained in fife or piccolo or flute, and also carry a bugle. All the above wear the drum badge upper right sleeve. As to the Great War, use of bugle in the front line was negligible as far as RWF were concerned. Whistle more relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 (edited) Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers .. dunno which btn. used bugle call on 1st day of the Somme. The actual bugle was in the possession of the steward at Ballymena Services Club for some time. It was inscribed etc ... dunno where it is now. Must find out! http://www.enniskillencastle.co.uk/dsp_con...m?section_key=5 Maybe this is where it ended up - if it's the same one? Edited 28 June , 2005 by Desmond7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintin1689 Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 At Le Cateau the German buglers opposite the KOYLI sounded the British ceasefire call in an attempt to confuse. It did n't work as their own buglers had been assigned to bringing up the rations. 7 Para had their CO's bugler sound the Regimental Call in Normandy in 1944 to make the rest of the battalion aware that HQ had reached the main objective. The call was the Regimental Call of the Somerset LI as the battalion had been converted out of that Regiment. Drummer Ritchie of the Seaforths won the VC for sounding the charge on the parapet of a trench under heavy fire during a gas attack. I should imagine the tactical use of the bugle was very limited in the Great War - I believe the field calls (lie down, enemy in sight etc) had been officially discontinued before the Great War - though I may well be wrong. The bugle was, of course, widely used in camp and on the march. In 1918, in probably the last case of its type, a battalion of the Worcesters was played into action to its Regimental March by a full band, that of the DCLI Pioneer battalion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcerha Posted 28 June , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 June , 2005 Dear All, As ever brilliant - thank you very much for those answers. Its such good news knowing that even a random question like that generates a wealth of well informed answers from some really knowledgeable folk. Many thanks once again, Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflegreen Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 David , Highams were a maker for the War Department , have seen them with the broad arrow mark and without . Some of the service battalions of the Rifle Brigade used private purchase bugles as it was not considered that service battalions needed bugle bands , one of them , in late 1918 , decided to start their band up again and had to get new bugles as they could only muster three bugles and one mouthpiece . Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 I take it that the soldering of a regimental badge onto a bugle to make it look more kosher is a post war practice? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Jones Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 I take it that the soldering of a regimental onto a bugle to make it look more kosher is a post war practice? Phil B <{POST_SNAPBACK}> and mainly carried out by dodgy antique dealers... Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Jones Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 Drummer Ritchie of the Seaforths won the VC for sounding the charge on the parapet of a trench under heavy fire during a gas attack. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wind instruments are really not advisable during a gas attack, which one was it? Regards Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflegreen Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 and mainly carried out by dodgy antique dealers... Simon <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mainly done on the repro India made bugles , also the stamping of a buglers name & number . Dread to think how many have bought these awful repros . Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 Yes, there were regulation patterns for bugles. The Bugle pattern was introduced in August 1872 (loC 2305)--Only one official pattern in WWI. It was copper with a 6" brass chain and a 2 1/4" brass silver plated mouth piece. The mouth piece was changed to German Silver in Sept 1907. I don't have too much detail other than this as I never copied the actual LoC paragraph's for bugles. The Trumpet was also introduced under the same LoC number but is a different instrument. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcerha Posted 28 June , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 June , 2005 Mainly done on the repro India made bugles , also the stamping of a buglers name & number . Dread to think how many have bought these awful repros . Chris <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Chris, Funny you should say that - its because there is such a broad range of "military bugles" for sale on ebay that prompted my question in the first place. Of the 8 or 9 that look to be the right pattern I would say 4 or 5 are probably dodgy indian repros - some complete with awful badges! One is apparently a relic from the Somme brought back in the 60's having been found near Fricourt and finally one, which bears the makers name of Highams of Manchester a crows foot and the date 1915. As for the others - well your guess is as good as mine I suspect.....I was really try to get some sensible knowledge on the subject (which thank goodness now I have) before deciding on which to bid...or not! Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflegreen Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 David , The Highams bugle looks perfectly right , the one from France looks OK as an un marked WD type bugle - who can comment on the provenance . Most India made bugles have a turned brass mouthpiece that look insubstantial and the point where it fits is a straight piece of pipe , there is a collar over the pipe on " proper " bugles and the mouthpiece is either German silver or plated brass , as Joe said . Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflegreen Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 David , Just had a look at the bugles on e-bay , 732483352 is a good example of regulation type , german silver or plated mouthpiece with the collar over the inlet . 7332726741 ia good example of a repro with a skinny turned mouthpiece and no collar . The collar stops the pipe splitting . Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Noble Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 Hi David. Pretty ironic this. In tonights edition of the Yorkshire Evening Post is a very interesting article. Apparently, one of the surviving Bugles that belonged to the Leeds Pals, is due to play the last Post at the annual commemoration at Colsterdale on the 10th July. I for one, hope to be there, quite an emotional experience i should imagine. Regards, Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD60 Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 some gravestone with those ranks A drummer http://perso.wanadoo.fr/tanneguy.desplanqu...shire%20reg.htm A trumpeter http://perso.wanadoo.fr/tanneguy.desplanqu...uards%204th.htm A bugler http://perso.wanadoo.fr/tanneguy.desplanqu...es%20bugler.htm Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Jones Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 May I interject with something irrelevant? Today I received an email from a museum curator in British Columbia who had kindly agreed to look for an obituary for a tunnelling officer who had died in her town in 1947. She found it and also discovered that her father had played the Last Post at the funeral. Back to the thread. Regards Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintin1689 Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 Ritche won the VC at Y Ravine near Beaumont Hamel, he later became Drum Major Real badged bugles have the badge (and usually scroll work and battle honours) made as part of the bugle rather than soldered on. One of the bands I'm involved with has one from th 5th (Cinque Ports) Bn Royal Sussex Regiment which is carried by te winer of the bugle competition each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintin1689 Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 The instruments of the Leeds Pals brass band were used to set up the Leeds City Police Band after the war as they had originally been presented by the Corporation. They were later tragically lost in a fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 There are numerous accounts of German bugle calls being heard by British soldiers in the first months of the war. I was just reading 'Fifteen Rounds a Minute: The Grenadiers at War 1914'. Jeffreys and the other contributors mention this during some (but not all) German attacks in First Ypres. Walter Bloem describes how he and his NCOs carried (and used) whistles in their attack at Mons. He also mentioned 'Pohlenz, mu bugler, a bullet hole through the bugle slung on his back...' German cavalry had trumpeters, as mentioned by Rudolf Binding for example. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303man Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 I have a Regulation Bugle made by Hawkes & Son Denman Street Picadilly Circus LONDON 1915 stamped on it also a copy of Trumpet & Bugle Sounds for the Army with Instructions for the training of Trumpeters and Buglers 1914 Inside the front cover it states " The following trumpet and bugle sounds are to be strictly adhered to on all occasions, and no others used in his majesty's service. General Officers Commanding, may at their descretion, order all or any of the peace calls to be used on active service" War Office 18 May 1915 Bugle Field Calls for infantry and mounted Infantry Continue or commence firing Stand Fast or Cease Fire Execute orders received I used to play but the lips are not up to it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 David if you go to www.farmersboys.com/MAIN/Bugles_calls.htm there are all the calls you will ever need. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 28 June , 2005 Share Posted 28 June , 2005 David if you go to www.farmersboys.com/MAIN/Bugles_calls.htm there are all the calls you will ever need. John <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What a fabulous site. Thanks John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Hauraki KIA KAHA Posted 29 June , 2005 Share Posted 29 June , 2005 I have a Regulation Bugle made by Hawkes & Son Denman Street Picadilly Circus LONDON 1915 stamped on it also a copy of Trumpet & Bugle Sounds for the Army with Instructions for the training of Trumpeters and Buglers 1914 Inside the front cover it states " The following trumpet and bugle sounds are to be strictly adhered to on all occasions, and no others used in his majesty's service. General Officers Commanding, may at their descretion, order all or any of the peace calls to be used on active service" War Office 18 May 1915 Bugle Field Calls for infantry and mounted Infantry Continue or commence firing Stand Fast or Cease Fire Execute orders received I used to play but the lips are not up to it now. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here is my Regulation Bugle made by Hawkes & Son Denman Street Picadilly Circus London 1916 But New Zealand marked needs a bit of a polish. Regards Jonathan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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