The Nek

[mcderms]

So... my uncle gets back from Oz, says 'one of our distant cousins was a researcher on a book called The Nek. Very interested to know you'd been there. Ooh I must have left the copy in the hotel'.

Apparently this also means that I had a very distant relative going over the bags at the Nek in 1915 and surviving...

Anyone know where I can get a copy of 'The Nek' by Paul Burness and if it's any good?

[Ozzie]

Peter Burness is with the Australian War Memorial.

It is a very well researched book.

Peter Burness, The Nek (Kenthurst, NSW: Kangaroo Press, 1996). [3rd Light Horse Brigade history and leadership examined. Plates, map: appendix gives names and battalions of those killed.]

The Nek: The Tragic Charge of the Light Horse at Gallipoli, Peter Burness, 1996, ISBN 0864177828

Goodbye Cobber God Bless You by John Hamilton is also a bout the Nek.

http://shop.abc.net.au/browse/product.asp?productid=508855

cheers

Kim

[ceebee]

The Nek: The Tragic Charge of the Light Horse at Gallipoli is a well written and informative book.

Starting with an overview of the attack on 7 August 1915, the book then provides chapters on the 3rd Light Horse Brigade; Colonel Frederic Godfrey Hughes, commander of the Brigade's operations at The Nek; Lieutenant-Colonel John Macquarie Antill; various officers and men, including Lieutenant-Colonels Noel Brazier and Alexander White; time spent in Egypt before landing at Gallipoli; arrival and time spent on Gallipoli before the attack; planning of the attack in conjunction with assaults on Pope's Hill, Quinn's Post and Chunuk Bair; the attack at The Nek; post attack; a critique of the attack; and a final chapter called Rememberance, which looks at lives and events after the campaign and the war. There are several references to those soldiers who survived the attack.

The book contains a mix of well researched facts (with sources quoted) and personal accounts taken from diaries and letters. There is a small selection of photos and an appendix listing those killed in action, together with their place of burial (the majority have no known grave). Unfortunately, there is only one very basic map.

I recommend the book to anyone who has an interest in the Gallipoli campaign. I have yet to read John Hamilton's book Good Bye Cobber God Bless You. Incidently, the title of Hamilton's book is attributed to 152 Trooper Harold Rush of the 10th Light Horse who is buried in Walker's Ridge Cemetery. Burness states "Trooper Harold Rush, a young farmhand, realising he was likely to die in the next few moments, turned to his mate beside him and said: 'Goodbye cobber. God bless you'. His parents arranged for his last words to be placed on his headstone.

Further accounts and information about The Nek charge can be found in the following books:

CEW Bean, Official History of Australia in the War of 1914-18: Vol. II The Story of Anzac (this is available online from the Australian War Memorial)

CEW Bean, 1948, Gallipoli Mission (deals with Beans return to Gallipoli in 1919)

John Robertson, 1990, Anzac and Empire: The Tragedy and Glory of Gallipoli - esp chapter 18

Tonie and Valmai Holt, 2000, Major and Mrs Holt's Battlefield Guide to Gallipoli (see the photo of Trooper Rush's gravestone on p.179)

Phil Taylor and Pam Cupper, 1989, Gallipoli: A Battlefield Guide

[mcderms]

Thanks for the interesting info... Can anyone tell me where I can but 'The Nek' though - I have a personal interest in this particular book. It's not in stock at the Aussie War Memorial and I do not know where else to look.

[ceebee]

mcderms

Sense your frustration there. I did a search through all the usual online book services - abebooks, alibris, Barnes and Noble, and Amazon. Came up with a big zero. I then emailed Peter Burness, the author, this morning at the Australian War Memorial. He gave his apologies, as he only received a very small number of additional books from the publisher, all of which have been given out. He suggested contacting the publisher.

As we are dealing with an Australian publication I have provided the email addresses of several second hand dealers in Australia who specialise in militaria. They may be able to assist or at least take your details in case they come across a copy.

here

here

Several of the bigger online companies, mentioned above, provide search services. You may wish to try them.

Good luck.

Chris

[mcderms]

Many thanks - I will let you know how I get on.

[mcderms]

Many thanks - I will let you know how I get on.

[isandlwana1879]

Bringing this back to the top of the Forum because I understand Peter Burness is reworking The Nek in light of new material. I have emailed the AWM for more info regarding possible release date but nothing coming back unfortunately.

Has anyone heard of any progress?

[Jeff Pickerd]

From what I have heard, or transversely, not heard, the re-write of The Nek by Peter Burness is on hold. There would appear to be a number of possible reasons for such, these ranging from recent funding cuts made to the AWM budget, and that in turn having a bearing upon the publisher’s willingness to undertake a re-work of the book. There is also the factor that Peter Burness has been heavily involved with projects concerning the Western Front over many preceding months, and previously travelling the AWM, VC exhibition around Australia.

I do know that such eminent authors and noted authorities on the charge, such as John Hamilton, Ian Gill, Jeff Pickerd, Steve Becker; and others, have also made note of not having had any news of late to the prospect of The Nek being re-published.

I personally hope that Peter Burness will be undertaking a re-write. The Nek still stands as one of the preeminent reference works detailing the charge at the Nek, and the only comprehensive account of the charge to be published since that of Dr. C. E. W. Bean in the official Australian history, volume II, of the early 1940’s. Since Burness published ‘The Nek’ in 1996 a great deal more information of the charge has surfaced. Archival material from the Australian War Memorial, the National Australian Archives, and ‘Trove’ from the National Library of Australia have become far more accessible, and has in many cases revealed documents and personal accounts of the charge that have not seen the light of public gaze for over ninety plus years. Goodbye Cobber, God Bless You, by John Hamilton (2008) has expanded that knowledge a great deal further, giving the personalized accounts of the men of the 8^th Light Horse Regiment and a detailed structure of the first and second line of the charge. His latest book, ‘The Price of Valour’ The triumph and tragedy of a Gallipoli hero, Hugo Throssell, VC, (2012) expands a little further to the roll of the 10^th Light Horse Regiment that morning. For the third and fourth lines of the charge, there is no other publication that comes close to detailing the action of the 10^th, than ‘Gallipoli to Tripoli’, History of the 10^th Light Horse Regiment AIF, 1914-1919, by Neville Browning and Ian Gill (2011). For his part of the work, ‘Gallipoli’, Ian Gill has set out in chapter five, ‘Russell’s Top & The Nek’, for the first time a comprehensive outline of the structure of the third and fourth lines for the charge, something that Charles Bean could not accurately achieve. The extensive research of Steve Becker and Jeff Pickerd can be verified by the acknowledgements each has received within the various publications, and from their contributions to this, and other forums.

A re-write of ‘The Nek’ by Peter Burness, drawing upon all available new information, will deliver a thoroughly academic rendition of the charge, a source of valuable references, and a darn good read. It can only be hoped that that will ultimately eventuate.

HM

[keithjk]

'The Nek' is currently being offered on Amazon for £274.74 !!!! And on Ebay for £48.68.

[David B]

Buy two at that price. (NOT)

[gilly100]

Hi All

I have only a few months ago contacted Peter Burness offering him any info and help with The Nek re-write. I have not heard back from Peter up to this time. I wrote the Gallipoli section of our book Gallipoli to Tripoli - 10th Light Horse Regiment 1914-1919 (Browning and Gill). The first edition of 750 books sold out in a few weeks, and then we handed the second print run to Peter Bridge at Hesperian Press in Perth, Australia. He has plenty of copies available at $94.95 Aus. We were selling the first run privately for $70Aus. We made a few minor corrections and added small amounts of new photos in the second run, so it is marginally better.

I must say, the eventual line up of the 3rd and 4th lines of the 10th Light Horse cannot be conclusively said, but I went as far as I could with the info we found, some that came after Peter's excellent 1996 book The Nek. Bean relied on a Sgt from the 4th Line called Sanderson, and Sanderson's recollection, although no doubt partially correct, was at odds with others that participated, including Lt Tom Kidd and L/Sgt Enie (or Evan) Bain. Bain actually did not charge (his brother Duncan did and died) and claimed three troops on the left of 4th line did not go. Some of this confirmed by Cpl Henry Foss of C troop, C Squadron. Kidd also claimed that one troop in 3rd line did not go, and I deduced that it was probably newly commissioned Harold Harper with A troop of B Squadron, although I could not conclusively prove this.

There seems little doubt all 4 troops of A Squadron in 3rd line went, but just to confuse one more, it appears 2nd Lt Throssell, who claimed he had C troop of A Sqdn, took his men quickly to ground, thus not sustaining any casualties at all in this troop. This appears correct if one knows the general make up of men in the troops of A Squadron.

I agonised over this chapter forever before committing to print, and while definitely not perfect, got I feel, pretty close to the make up of the final 2 lines.

People such as Jeff Pickerd (Nek expert no doubt), Steve Becker, Bill Woerlee and a few others assisted no end in this regard. Jeff has nailed the first 2 lines of 8th Light Horse down spot on, and while I made some good mention of the 8th LIght Horse at The Nek that day, I kept it more minimal, so as to not steal any thunder from Jeff, and to also keep in line with the book - a regimental history. I hope Jeff publishes on the 8th Light Horse one day. I will definitely buy it!!

I look forward to hearing from Peter in the future and am happy to send on any info required. We put in a full casualty list for the charge on 7th August 1915, as we did also for the Hill 60 fighting a few weeks later, when Throssell earned the VC. I also look forward to finally solving this riddle once and for all, (and quietly pray I was right, or close to it!!)

Cheers

Ian Gill

Bali

[Jeff Pickerd]

Keithjk,

Interesting! I did a search for copies of The Nek for sale overhere and only came up with six editions being offered. One first edition from Regimental Books at $110.00, the best price, Five from Amazon, priced from $194.96. $195.00. $285.00. $399.29. And lastly $404.35. One wonders how many other books have had such an increase in price in under twenty years since publication?

Thanks Ian, you and Neville did an outstanding job with the 10th history. Also interesting to hear that you have not heard back from Peter Burness with your offer of assistance, somewhat confirms what I had been told about the publication being put on hold.

While undertaking the search for copies of the book for sale, I came across an article from the AWM, titled: "Revisting the Charge at The Nek", by Emma Campbell, published 27th September 2011. In the article she mentions that Peter Burness was undertaking research for an up-dated edition, and the last sentence of the articale states: "The new edition of 'The Nek' is in production." Seeing as that was just about 12 months ago, and no-one seems to have heard any news of the new release, and that article seems to be the only source of any information about it from the AWM, just what is the situation with a re-print?

Maybe you are best placed to find an answer to that question.

HM

[gilly100]

HI HM

I will pop Peter another email shortly, although we have never met. With regard to the Nek article by Emma Campbell, can you tell me where I can view this? Was it in an edition of the AWM's Wartime magazine? I would like to read it.

I hope Peter does re write his book and I hope he speaks with Jeff Pickerd also, as Jeff knows probably more than anyone on this topic, especially with the 8th Light Horse, who all went over on that fateful morning. There are certainly more accounts from this regiment, that is for sure. That's why we keep on poking around!!

Cheers and glad you like the book.

Ian

[gilly100]

Hi All

For those interested, I have made touch with Peter Burness from the AWM, who has been a very busy man. It seems his re write on The Nek should be out some time in November 2012, so all good news there. I mentioned to Peter that there is keen interest in the book, so hopefully he won't mind me saying all this now. Am sure this book will be in all normal bookstores as well as specialist military book dealers.

Cheers

Ian Gill

[Jeff Pickerd]

Thanks very much Ian, that is good news. Seems that the AWM article from last year was right after all. It will be interesting to see how much more the re-write has of the charge at the Nek compared to the 1996 original.

HM

[Jeff Pickerd]

Ian,

Nearly forgot. You asked for the AWM Emma Campbell article, hopefully this link will work.

www.awm.gov.au/blog/2011/09/.../revisiting-the-charge-at-the-nek/

HM

[gilly100]

Thanks HM

I actually got off my bum and looked up the Emma Campbell article already. Not much to report there anyways. I know John Hamilton's book on Hugo Throssell VC is now out, a book I will pick up in Perth next month. Apparently he has expanded on the role of the 10th LH at the Nek from his good earlier work Goodbye Cobber, God Bless You, which was more weighted with 8th LH info. John placed Throssell in the 4th line, probably from evidence supplied by a former Sergeant Sanderson of B Sqdn, who Bean consulted. While I disagree with this placement, certainly the AWM38 file from Bean diaries has a lot from Sanderson, both on The Nek and Hill 60. The reason I chose to disregard some of it was because these notes also placed Tom Kidd and Harold Harper, also of B Sqdn, in the 4th line also. Kidd's records mention both of them in the 3rd line on the extreme left, going from the Secret Sap and that one troop in third line did not go. This is controversial, and while I cannot prove 100%, I feel that if so, it was Harper's troop on right of Kidd. Soon after The Nek charge, Harper was made Machine Gun officer vide Horace Robertson, who took over a troop and later a squadron. Harper later in October went to another regiment in the 3LHB (9th LH). Only my thoughts out aloud here. Kidd also provided a much more detailed line up of what troop and Sqdn was where, as well as some of the officers leading them. Fair also to say, that some of this turned out differently on the day, as mentioned in our book Gallipoli to Tripoli.

Sanderson claimed all the troops went from the front line only, which I also disagree with regard to 3rd line. It is more possible with 4th line as it appears most of C Sqdn did not charge, and they were to be on the left and centre, most of whom did not even get up into the line to jump off. This evidenced by Evan Bain and Henry Foss, both of C Sqdn.

Nevertheless, each author chooses what he thinks is right, and I know I tried to say that "maybe" so an so was here, and so raise some possibilities in the lack of a complete and clear line up of both 10LH lines. John certainly had enough info to declare Throssell in 4th line on right. I look forward to reading his account and the book in general. John is a good writer and his books very popular. Throssell CERTAINLY deserves a book about his life, not only for his war deeds, but what he did after that and his subsequent poor treatment, especially the conservatives.

And so the debate rages on about The Nek, and as Peter Burness wisely said to me, a good thing too having the different angles. Better than none at all. Certainly gives rise for eternal online debate, that is for sure!!!

Cheers

Ian

[gilly100]

Hi All

Peter Burness's re-write on the Nek, as previously mentioned, will be out in November 2012, published by Exile Press. Proceeds, I am informed will go to the AWM. Well done Peter, and we look forward to it and any future publications.

Cheers

Ian Gill

[ShirlD]

Hello Ian,

Sandra, Chris and I have just returned from John's Book Launch in Northam. The RSL hall was filled, John gave an incredibly moving account of Hugo Throssel's life, and if the discussion afterwards is anything to go by, we may see this man's life recognised with sympathy and due recognition. I might let Sandra fill you in with more details!

Cheers

Shirley

Ps Another book for me to buy in November!

[Fedelmar]

Pass the buck Shirley!!!

Yes it was a very moving speech by John. I would go as far as to say that most people in the room were feeling very emotional and more than one conscience was pricked because of it.

The general concensus of those present was that Hugo Throssell VC should be officially recognised by this state and this country and not passed over as if he did not exist.

As far as this state goes, the only recognition of him in is a small metal plaque under a tree away from the main walkways in King's Park. You would only find it if you already knew it was there or stumbled across it accidently. There is a rotunda that has a plaque inside up on Greenmount across the road from the house where he lived with his wife and where he committed suicide. Last time I was up there with Shirley, Chris, Andrew and Jeff, the plaques had been attacked by a graffiti vandal. I contacted the shire and they followed up by cleaning it off. There is another plaque in Northam and other than these there is nothing. Kathrine Susannah Pritchard house (the Throssell home) is visited by many people but no where in the house is there a mention of Hugo Throssell VC,

As far as I know, in Australia all there is are his medals on display at the the Australian War Memorial and that is it.

The Office of Australian War Graves will not take over the maintenance and care of his grave at Karrakatta Cemetery because it had a headstone placed on it by the family and not by the Australian Government.

Hugo Throssell VC was a hero and will always be a hero and he needs to be recognised by the people as a hero.

I cannot give you a review of John's book as I have only gotten through a third of it. Perhaps Andrew, Jeff or Chris might

Bright Blessings

Sandra

[gilly100]

Thanks Sandra and Shirley

So glad John's launch went well and perhaps greater recognition will ensue forthwith. It just goes to show how conservatives can slam a door without even thinking about it. I really look forward to reading John's book. Skip got me a copy and I will pick up in Perth next time down. It certainly was a book that had to be done and congrats to JH for doing so. I have been in touch with Jeff and he attended the other launch in Melbourne, which apparently went very well also. Ironic and interesting that John Howard launched there. Could give further legs to greater recognition!!

Regards

Ian

[ShirlD]

Thanks Sandra!

Those precise details of how Hugo Throssel is currently recognized is exactly what I hoped to find! I would like to mention here that Sandra is the one who puts flowers on his grave whenever she is in Karrakatta, and on Anzac Day, she is often the only one who has paid respects at the grave of a forgotten and neglected VC recipient.

Cheers

Shirley

[Fedelmar]

those at the book launch. Some might recognise the two people on the right in the second row.

[Fedelmar]

John Hamilton during his speech.

On the right is a beautiful painting of Hugo Throssell VC. Sadly this valuable painting is stored in a shed in Northam. From accounts it is rather difficult to convince the local authorities to do anything with this painting despite its value to WA or Australia.