'Cloth Insignia'

[FROGSMILE]

6 hours ago, Poelcappelle said:

placement of the diamond badge (is it an inch below the shoulder seam?)

Yes it looks about an inch.

6 hours ago, Poelcappelle said:

or perhaps cut into a diamond shape), or if this octagonal badge was for a different purpose?

Going by previous badges that I’ve seen made from felt they were usually cut.  Felt was resistant to fraying at the edges, so it was a convenient material.  The octagonal shape is a mystery, but it looks as if the badge was originally a diamond and then the points cut off.  It might be that when the badge was removed from a jacket the points became damaged and so they were trimmed to neaten them for the display, although that’s a long shot speculation wise.

6 hours ago, Poelcappelle said:

Later in the war when the soldier was not in a front-line role? 

The only circumstance I can imagine is if he were attached to the Divisional HQ, perhaps e.g. as a servant (aka batman) to an LF officer on the staff.  Before the Labour Corps (LC) was formed in 1917 servants came from parent units of the officers.  Subsequently the LC took on that role.  2/5th were with 164th Bde of 55th Div from 1st Jul 1916 till the end of the war so I imagine they had their own unit level badge scheme and that the 55th Div badges are not usual other than in special circumstances of the kind outlined.

6 hours ago, Poelcappelle said:

Trying to remember if you had mentioned the bimetal officer's cap badge was silver and gilt and used earlier in the war.

I said that there was no physical evidence of a TF version of the officers service dress Bronze badge (i.e. absent the EGYPT honour) and that perhaps the bimetal version without the honour (proven to exist) might’ve been used instead.  It’s an unclear aspect as things stand.

Edited 23 May by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

These photos appear to be 2/6th Battalion, which from the coloured chart upthread favoured a much larger diamond with central numeral.  The group photo is indistinct, but nonetheless useful.  The individual soldier sitting at table gives a good impression of scale.

Edited 25 May by FROGSMILE

[poona guard]

It looks like a post-war 6th battalion flash.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, poona guard said:

It looks like a post-war 6th battalion flash.

Yes I think you’re right David, as the forage caps are the pattern introduced in the early 1920s, so it was probably the annual training camp. The dimensions seems to match with the coloured diagram / chart posted by Arthur, up thread.

Edited 25 May by FROGSMILE

[caladonia]

Hello there

For interest here's a link to an old thread with an excellant wartime photo of the 1/6th Batttalion patch.

William.

 

[Poelcappelle]

10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes I think you’re right David, as the forage caps are the pattern introduced in the early 1920s, so it was probably the annual training camp. The dimensions seems to match with the coloured diagram / chart posted by Arthur, up thread.

Would this photograph be from a similar post-war period?  And do we know if the more square-like patch came later than the more acute-angled diamond patch?

[Poelcappelle]

8 hours ago, caladonia said:

Hello there

For interest here's a link to an old thread with an excellant wartime photo of the 1/6th Batttalion patch.

William.

 

Thank you!  An excellent photograph indeed!

Similarly, I have found these photographs from the Lancashire Fusiliers website of Capt Norman Hall to be very helpful with regard to the diamond patches and LF TF badges in general.

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Poelcappelle said:

Would this photograph be from a similar post-war period?  And do we know if the more square-like patch came later than the more acute-angled diamond patch?

If it’s “the earliest known photo” then presumably it’s a wartime image.

As mentioned previously it’s unknown to me how the diamond with its points cut off came about, or whether it was something done just for the display itself given that there seems as yet no visible or documentary evidence of such a badge.

Edited 26 May by FROGSMILE

[poona guard]

The diamond was always a square, never cut off for wear and continued to be used long after the war. I think he is wearing a collar badge, if so it is taken in the 1920s.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, poona guard said:

The diamond was always a square, never cut off for wear and continued to be used long after the war. I think he is wearing a collar badge, if so it is taken in the 1920s.

Yes he’s definitely wearing collar badges.  It’s just a matter of the individual concerned and it apparently showing the earliest image of him.  We’d need to know his relevance and circumstances and I don’t know that. 

[Poelcappelle]

7 hours ago, poona guard said:

The diamond was always a square, never cut off for wear and continued to be used long after the war. I think he is wearing a collar badge, if so it is taken in the 1920s.

Thank you.  I do agree that the diamonds are squares in the photographs of the 2nd/5th and perhaps 1st/6th.

They differ from the LF symbols as depicted in the regiment's history, which are more like parallelograms.  As also is the example from the IWM for the 2nd/7th, shared on this forum.  Would those be exceptions to the norm of a square shape?

[poona guard]

The 2nd lin battalions wore the long diamond shape, the 1st line the square diamond.

[Poelcappelle]

5 hours ago, poona guard said:

The 2nd lin battalions wore the long diamond shape, the 1st line the square diamond.

Thank you for clarifying that distinction.  Much appreciated!  It makes sense now!