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Surrey Recruitment Registers


borstal

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Ok I'm getting there,

REGIMENT ARMY SERVICE CORPS (REMOUNT)

NUMBER 35917

SURNAME TUCKER

FORENAMES C

DATEOFBIRT

YRS 18

MTH 9

HT_FT 5

HT_IN 8

WT_LBS 123

CHEST 32

EXPANS 2

COMPLEXION

EYES

HAIR

DIST_MARKS

MARITSTAT

CATEGORY 1

OCCUPATION Greengrocer

MED_CAT C1

BIRTHPLACE

COUNTY

ATTESTDATE 12/04/17

ATTESTPLAC Kingston

ACCEPTED_R

SERVICETER

NEXTOFKIN

RELIGION

REMARKS 25 Balham Hill Balham

DELETED

REGIMENT EAST SURREY REGIMENT (3RD BATN)

NUMBER 12253

SURNAME TUCKER

FORENAMES F J

DATEOFBIRT

YRS 18

MTH 2

HT_FT 5

HT_IN 8

WT_LBS 111

CHEST 32

EXPANS 2

COMPLEXION

EYES

HAIR

DIST_MARKS

MARITSTAT

CATEGORY 1

OCCUPATION Shop Assistant

MED_CAT

BIRTHPLACE Clapton

COUNTY

ATTESTDATE 18/05/16

ATTESTPLAC Wandsworth

ACCEPTED_R

SERVICETER

NEXTOFKIN

RELIGION

REMARKS 133 Endlesham Rd Balham

DELETED

REGIMENT 15TH HUSSARS

NUMBER

SURNAME TUCKER

FORENAMES Harry

DATEOFBIRT

YRS 39

MTH 3

HT_FT 5

HT_IN 6

WT_LBS 132

CHEST 37

EXPANS 2

COMPLEXION

EYES

HAIR

DIST_MARKS

MARITSTAT

CATEGORY

OCCUPATION Porter

MED_CAT

BIRTHPLACE Camberwell

COUNTY

ATTESTDATE 08/02/15

ATTESTPLAC Kingston

ACCEPTED_R

SERVICETER

NEXTOFKIN

RELIGION

REMARKS 23 Floss Rd Garrett Lane Tooting

DELETED

I'm not fully automatic yet, but I'll kept at it .... No doubt SHC will slap my wrists if I've broken any copyright.

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Hello to one and all.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I thought I was the only one in the Redhill area to be a member of the Forum.

It turns out that I am one of many.

I live in Earlswood, my Grandfather moved to Redhill in 1935 after serving 30 years with the colours.

Regards,

Tim

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Hi Chris

Thank you very much for the Tuckers, not the one I'm looking for but will file for reference. Really appreciate your help my Tucker is most elusive.

Regards

Christina

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Hi

This sounds like a great research database, which I am very tempted to purchase.

I have read the post a couple of times, exactly what infomation does it give you on each person? Name, address, regiment enlisted in etc etc. (could post a sample or PM me and will forward my email to you)

I ask as I have a number of possible uses, Family history (name search), local history (I am interested in looking for men who enlisted from Redhill Surrey) and I am also a Royal West Surrey Medal collector.

Many Thanks

Neil Uwins

Neil,

Go on, go on , go on, go on , go on, buy it!

Just to wet your appetite 82 individuals with named "Redhill" addresses and neraly 4000 for RWS Regiment.

See my earlier posts for examples of what info it contains on each entry.

Regards,

Chris.

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Tim 1915,

I moved from Brockham in 1999, I know Redhill quite well especially the A&E dept of the hospital as I used to work there!

As they say a small world but I would hate to be the one to clean it!

Mandy

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Mandy,

Thanks for the post. We used to live behind the War Memorial in Dorking, then moved back to Redhill.

With members from all around the globe, I honestly thought there would only be one or two people from my neck of the woods.

It's like the time I was reading an edition of the Ypres Times and a contibutor mentioned the Earlswood Lakes!

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This disc is essential for unit historians, war memorial research etc. I have been using it to add to my database of the 19th London Regiment (St. Pancras).

37 are listed as enlisting in the 19th London Regiment. On cross checking these with my database I found:

6 men killed/DOW - from SDITGW and medal rolls

21 men who appear to have survived, having identified them in medal rolls and/or MICs

1 man who appears in the Silver War Badge roll only but who does not appear to have served overseas

9 men were completely new to me. Of these, seven cannot be identified through MICs online, so I am not yet able to attribute a regimental number to them.

I have also been looking at those men shown in my database as enlisting:

1) into specific Surrey units (e.g. 4th E Surreys) before being transferred into the 19th.

2) at specific places e.g. Kingston and Croydon

I have identified several others in this way.

Where I already had place of enlistment (from SDGW) and date of enlistment (SWB roll) I have found a perfect match with the data from the recruiting registers. I know its a small sample, but this does give me a lot of confidence in the data.

Charles

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Can I have a look up please!

Pte. C. W. Miller 8917 East Surrey Regiment

I think he lived in New Halden. I`m interested in researching this chap because he later moved to my home town. His son was to become a D-Day Commando.

Many Thanks,

Steve.

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Can I have a look up please!

Pte. C. W. Miller 8917 East Surrey Regiment

I think he lived in New Halden. I`m interested in researching this chap because he later moved to my home town. His son was to become a D-Day Commando.

Many Thanks,

Steve.

C.W.Miller - came from New Malden (?)

REF 2496

VOL 2

PAGE 130

REGIMENT EAST SURREY REGIMENT

NUMBER

SURNAME MILLER

FORENAMES C W

REGION_NO

DATEOFBIRT

YRS 37

MTH 9

HT_FT 5

HT IN 7.1/4

WT_LBS 121

CHEST 35

EXPANS 2

COMPLEXION

EYES

HAIR

DIST_MARKS

AREA

MARITSTAT

CATEGORY

OCCUPATION Carman

SUB_AREA

MED_CAT

BIRTHPLACE Camberwell

COUNTY

ATTESTDATE 16/03/15

ATTESTPLAC Kingston

ACCEPTED_R

SERVICETER

RELIGION

REMARKS 1 Avenue T N Malden

DELETED

Regards,

Chris.

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Charles,

Case proven, I think. Pity my two 19th London men didn't turn up.

RSM 2627 Arthur Frederick RIDOUT

Pte 4000 George Joseph SENYARD

We have exchanged info about RSM Ridout , but not Pte SENYARD.

For interested parties, the list of distinct "London Regiments/Battalions" in the Register is:

39TH TF (LONDON IRISH RIFLES)

63RD T F D (23RD LONDON)

ARMY SERVICE CORPS (2ND LONDON TF)

ARMY SERVICE CORPS (LONDON)

CENTRAL LONDON RECRUITING DEPOT

CITY OF LONDON YEOMANRY

CITY OF LONDON YEOMANRY (2ND BATN)

COUNTY OF LONDON YEOMANRY (1ST BATN)

LONDON DIVISION (3/2ND ENGINEERS)

LONDON ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS

LONDON ELECTRICITY ENGINEERS

LONDON REGIMENT

LONDON REGIMENT (1/22ND BATN SURREY RIFLES)

LONDON REGIMENT (10TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (10TH RESERVE BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (115TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (11TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (12TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (13TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (14TH BATN L SCOTTISH)

LONDON REGIMENT (14TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (15TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (16TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (17TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (18TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (19TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (1ST BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (2/10TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (2/25TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (2/28TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (20TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (21ST BATN 1ST SURREY RIFLES)

LONDON REGIMENT (21ST BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (22ND BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (23RD BATN CYCLISTS)

LONDON REGIMENT (23RD BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (24TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (26TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (27TH BATN OTC)

LONDON REGIMENT (28TH BATN ARTISTS RIFLES)

LONDON REGIMENT (28TH BATN OTC)

LONDON REGIMENT (28TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (29TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (2ND BATN SANITARY CO)

LONDON REGIMENT (2ND BATN SANITARY COY)

LONDON REGIMENT (2ND BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (2ND BATN)?

LONDON REGIMENT (3/18TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (3/1ST ELECTRICAL ENGS)

LONDON REGIMENT (3/21ST BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (3/6TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (30TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (3RD BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (3RD RESERVE BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (4TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (5TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (5TH BATN) [RIFLE BRIGADE]

LONDON REGIMENT (6TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (7TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (8TH BATN P O RIFLES)

LONDON REGIMENT (8TH BATN PO RIFLES)

LONDON REGIMENT (8TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (9TH BATN)

LONDON REGIMENT (EE)

LONDON REGIMENT (ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS)

LONDON REGIMENT 5TH BATN)

LONDON RIFLE BRIGADE

ROYAL ARMY MEDICAL CORPS (4TH LONDON)

ROYAL ENGINEERS (2ND LONDON WELSH)

ROYAL ENGINEERS (2ND LONDON)

ROYAL ENGINEERS (3/2ND LONDON)

ROYAL ENGINEERS (LONDON ELEC ENGINEERS)

ROYAL FIELD ARTILLERY (1ST LONDON)

ROYAL FIELD ARTILLERY (3/4TH LONDON)

ROYAL FIELD ARTILLERY (5TH LONDON)

ROYAL FIELD ARTILLERY (6TH LONDON)

ROYAL FIELD ARTILLERY (7TH LONDON)

Around 3,000 men in toal joined these units.

Regards,

Chirs.

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Chris

Does the register contain any Royal Fusilier battalions?

Particularly interested in any 25th Battalion (Frontiersmen).

Steve

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Chris

Does the register contain any Royal Fusilier battalions?

Particularly interested in any 25th Battalion (Frontiersmen).

Steve

The breakdown for Royal Fusilier battalions entires in the Registers is

REGIMENT Count of Entries

ROYAL FUSILIERS 868

ROYAL FUSILIERS (10TH BATN) 22

ROYAL FUSILIERS (12TH BATN) 1

ROYAL FUSILIERS (14TH BATN) 75

ROYAL FUSILIERS (15TH BATN) 146

ROYAL FUSILIERS (16TH BATN) 231

ROYAL FUSILIERS (17TH BATN) 12

ROYAL FUSILIERS (18TH BATN) 2

ROYAL FUSILIERS (19TH BATN) 3

ROYAL FUSILIERS (25TH BATN) 17

ROYAL FUSILIERS (26TH BATN) 24

ROYAL FUSILIERS (27TH BATN) 79

ROYAL FUSILIERS (28TH BATN) 10

ROYAL FUSILIERS (29TH BATN) 16

ROYAL FUSILIERS (2ND BATN) 1

ROYAL FUSILIERS (30TH BATN) 75

ROYAL FUSILIERS (31ST BATN) 49

ROYAL FUSILIERS (35TH BATN) 78

ROYAL FUSILIERS (35TH LABOUR 4

ROYAL FUSILIERS (36TH BATN) 83

ROYAL FUSILIERS (37TH BATN) 38

ROYAL FUSILIERS (38TH BATN) 45

ROYAL FUSILIERS (39TH BATN) 6

ROYAL FUSILIERS (3RD BATN) 3

ROYAL FUSILIERS (42ND BATN) 5

ROYAL FUSILIERS (47TH BATN) 66

ROYAL FUSILIERS (52ND YSB) 3

ROYAL FUSILIERS (53RD YSB) 331

ROYAL FUSILIERS (5TH BATN) 150

ROYAL FUSILIERS (6TH BATN) 456

ROYAL FUSILIERS (7TH & 5TH BATN) 1

ROYAL FUSILIERS (7TH BATN) 46

ROYAL FUSILIERS (9TH BATN) 1

ROYAL FUSILIERS (AGRICULTURAL 5

ROYAL FUSILIERS (ARMY PAY 1

ROYAL FUSILIERS (DEPOT) 19

ROYAL FUSILIERS (LABOUR BATN) 10

ROYAL FUSILIERS (OTC) 1

ROYAL FUSILIERS (S RESERVE) 1

The CD should be of real interest to you.

Regards,

Chris.

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QUOTE (Chris_B @ Dec 6 2005, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Charles,

Case proven, I think. Pity my two 19th London men didn't turn up.

RSM 2627 Arthur Frederick RIDOUT

Pte 4000 George Joseph SENYARD

We have exchanged info about RSM Ridout , but not Pte SENYARD.

Chris

Cant help you much with Senyard other than his enlistment date. Here is the little I have:

SENYARD, George, Pte, 4000

F&F w 1/19th 13/8/16 to 6/9/16, then attd Entrenching Battalion 7/9/16 to 22/9/16, then 1/19th 23/9/16 to 2/10/16

D of W 02/10/1916 at Eaucourt L'Abbaye

b. Becourt Mil Cem

born: Herne Hill

enlisted: Camden Town

resided: Wandsworth

From his regimental number he enlisted on 20/4/1915

Sources: CWGC, SDGW

19th London Roll of Honour in "Memories, Journal of the 19th London OCA" 1926 Q3

BW&VM Roll 19th London Regt p. 46

regards

Charles

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Here are some additional findings. On further digging through the database I have so far found another 26 who served with the 19th Londons at some stage.

In total I have found 63 of the Surrey enlistees on my database. These fall into three groups:

1) those with 19th London Regt numbers in the range from 6117 to 6153 (or 612400 to 612430). I had identified this block from SDGW as all those who died in the this group are shown as formerly XXXX Pte Bloggs E Surrey, and in may cases as 4th East Surrey. With the SRR I have found 21 in this block. This group are enlistees into the E Surreys from Sept 1914 to March 1916 and appear to have been tf into the 19th in mid-1916.

2) those with 19th London numbers from 616270 to 6161748 (the 37 men I first found) who appear to have been conscripted straight into the 19th. They attested from spring 1917 to April 1918. The medal rolls show these men only spending a week or so with the 19th in June or July of 1918 (presumbably in a Base Depot) before being posted to another battalion of the London Regt (mainly the 2nd or 4th Londons)

3) a group of men who attested in late 1916 or early 1917 into the Middlesex Regt and who on SDGW are shown as attached 1/19th Londons. I have found 5 in this group (all casualties in the 100 days, so there should be more to be found in the SRR database). This group would appear to be part of a draft of 604 men from the Middlesex who were posted to the 1/19th in April 1918 after the March retreat. These men are showing up as going to one of the Training Reserve Battalions rather than the Middx, but I am able to match them on place of enlistment and/or residence.

There will be more to come in time, the ones above are merely the 'quick wins'. One difficulty is that there are no regimental numbers so I am having to find a match on the following:

Surname and initials - I can be fairly sure of this if it is an uncommon name, but it is impossible with the Smiths etc.

Also the following can confirm it if they are present both on my database and the Surrey RR database:

* Forenames

* enlistment date (from SWB roll - matches in every case so far the attestation date in SRR)

* unit enlisted into if not 19th

* place of enlistment (from SDGW)

* place of residence / address (from SDGW, sometimes I also have an address from the Absent Voters List for Wandsworth)

I'm not sure that it is possible to programme access to pick up possible matches so I am relying on the Mk 1 eyeball.

Charles

Edits shown in blue.

Edited by Charles Fair
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The CD should be of real interest to you.

Definitely looks that way.

Thank goodness my birthday follows quickly after Christmas, have to start dropping unsubtle hints to the wife.

Steve

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QUOTE (Chris_B @ Nov 30 2005, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry Kevin, no luck. I could only find entries for :

A Ley, born Malden

A J Ley , born Bow

W LEY, born Battersea

Regards,

Chris

Julian,

There are four J.Ried, one J.C. Ried and one J.S Reid, none ar listed as being from Betchworth.

Regards,

Chris.

CHRIS,

MANY THANKS FOR DOING THE LOOKUP. MUCH APPRECIATED.

KEVIN LEY.

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Can I be a total pain in the behind and ask someone to do a quick check for me?

I have a trio to Pte T H Blackwell, East Surrey Regiment. I dont have his regiment number on me as i'm at work and I cant open the NA database here. His name is Tam H Blackwell but on the medal card it says Tan. Any help would be great.

Thanks,

Barrie

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Can I draw one matter to the attention of the forum; namely the number of people asking for look ups.

The compilation of a CD such as this involves many hours of work by volunteers, and they do this willingly on the basis that places like the SHC can sell the results of their endeavours at a small profit in order to fund future projects.

If too many persons ask for look ups and do not purchase the CD they are reducing the possibility of future projects.

The CD is not expensive, so think long & hard before asking for or supplying the answers to look up requests, you could kill the golden goose

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Apologies,

I only asked as I have only one set of medals belonging to a gent in the East Surrey Regiment. I would buy the CD but as I would only use it once thought I would ask someone instead.

Barrie

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borstal said:
Can I draw one matter to the attention of the forum; namely the number of people asking for look ups.

The compilation of a CD such as this involves many hours of work by volunteers, and they do this willingly on the basis that places like the SHC can sell the results of their endeavours at a small profit in order to fund future projects.

If too many persons ask for look ups and do not purchase the CD they are reducing the possibility of future projects.

The CD is not expensive, so think long & hard before asking for or supplying the answers to look up requests, you could kill the golden goose

I have to agree about the look-ups. I've said as much myself a few days ago in this thread

I'm happy to say if a given battn/regt has entries, but otherwise please consider buying the CD yourself. Compared to many other commerical products it is a bargain at £16 (inc p&p) and as Borstal says future projects could be in jeopardy if only a few people buy it.

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Chris

Cant help you much with Senyard other than his enlistment date. Here is the little I have:

SENYARD, George, Pte, 4000

F&F w 1/19th 13/8/16 to 6/9/16, then attd Entrenching Battalion 7/9/16 to 22/9/16, then 1/19th 23/9/16 to 2/10/16

D of W 02/10/1916 at Eaucourt L'Abbaye

b. Becourt Mil Cem

born: Herne Hill

enlisted: Camden Town

resided: Wandsworth

From his regimental number he enlisted on 20/4/1915

Sources: CWGC, SDGW

19th London Roll of Honour in "Memories, Journal of the 19th London OCA" 1926 Q3

BW&VM Roll 19th London Regt p. 46

regards

Charles

Charles,

Thanks for very much this information on Pte.Senyard. I did track down a lillte more of RSM Ridout's family before 1901, and perhaps how a man born in Dorset ended up living in Tooting Junction at the time of the Great War and one time neighbour of my Grandfather. I'll PM you with what I found out.

Chris

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Charles,

You're obviously doing what I guess many folk will do with the SRR, looking for matches with data they have built up themselves, possibly in an Excel spreadsheet. Sometimes the MK1 eyeball can be all you need, but when looking for large numbers of matches SQL that "joins" two (or more tables) is the route to take. This is bread abd butter for relational database software.

Once you've got your data into Access in the correct format, a SQL "join" on two tables (if you get it right) will match one row in your own table with zero, one or more rows in the SRR table. The process becomes automatic.

So the answer to your questions is yes it is possible. So it's a case of:

1. Importing data into ACCESS from your own source to form a second table.

2. Create (and test) a join query on the tables matching on the various criteria you wish.

3. Turning the working query into a report you can view at leisure.

Some gotchas are:

1. Your own data does not have separate data fields/Excel columns for SURNAME and FORENAME. Usually with a bit of string manipulation you can generate what you need.

2. The data type (date, text, number etc.) in a field in one table doesn't match the other table. Shouldn't be a problem if your have recorded dates as dates (with four digit years) and names as places as text.

3. Matching on SRR field REMARKS where the place of residence is, means a string pattern match using a criteria such as LIKE "*[MyRecordedResidence]*", where MyRecordedResidence must be subsituted for the actual name of the residence field in your own data table.

The theory sounds fine, but I'm short on recent practice. I'm trying this out right now. Of course, you'll have to decide if the effort of doing this is less than the time for the MK1 eyeball, which of course depends on how many matches you are looking for.

Incidentally, your analysis of 19th London men just confirms how much toing and froing there was throughout the war. It takes some pretty determined research to keep track of one individual, let alone many.

But I sadly came to the conclusion a while ago that so often though you are just not going to know. Blimey it's hard enough sometimes to say who someone was.

One example, there is a "BENNETT T.G." on a local war memorial. He is not in SDGW, not in CWGC, can't even find an entry in FreeBMDs nor an obvious candidate in 1901 census. OK so maybe his death was after discharge but before/during the memorial's creation and his name gets added. But I can't even find a MIC. OK so he is not in the Army. Hmm, but I get a nice surprise, he is in the SRR. His name is "BENNETT T. G." - arrrrrgh!! His unit is the Huntingdonshire Cyclists and what I know about them is zero.. Obvious really, after all he was a postman.

Don't wear out that MK1 eyeball!

Regards,

Chris.

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QUOTE (Chris_B @ Dec 7 2005, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm happy to say if a given battn/regt has entries, but otherwise please consider buying the CD yourself. Compared to many other commerical products it is a bargain at £16 (inc p&p) and as Borstal says future projects could be in jeopardy if only a few people buy it.

ditto - it is excellent value and is essential for anyone researching a London battalion, or any other unit from this part of the world. Go on....

Charles

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You're obviously doing what I guess many folk will do with the SRR, looking for matches with data they have built up themselves, possibly in an Excel spreadsheet. Sometimes the MK1 eyeball can be all you need, but when looking for large numbers of matches SQL that "joins" two (or more tables) is the route to take. This is bread abd butter for relational database software.

Yes, I'm using Excel - my skills are way ahead of my Access.

Some gotchas are:

1. Your own data does not have separate data fields/Excel columns for SURNAME and FORENAME. Usually with a bit of string manipulation you can generate what you need.

These are separate.

2. The data type (date, text, number etc.) in a field in one table doesn't match the other table. Shouldn't be a problem if your have recorded dates as dates (with four digit years) and names as places as text.

This is OK too, all dates are DD/MM/YYYY

3. Matching on SRR field REMARKS where the place of residence is, means a string pattern match using a criteria such as LIKE "*[MyRecordedResidence]*", where MyRecordedResidence must be subsituted for the actual name of the residence field in your own data table.

This is the area where I am needing the most judgment as I am using the residence and enlistment from SDGW and possibly the address from an AVL, and matching these against the SRR enlistment place and the address in the remarks column

The theory sounds fine, but I'm short on recent practice. I'm trying this out right now. Of course, you'll have to decide if the effort of doing this is less than the time for the MK1 eyeball, which of course depends on how many matches you are looking for.

I'm not sure it is worth the effort for the relatively small number that I am looking for who are likely to be from Surrey. So far if I am looking for a BLOGGS J who enlisted into the Middx it is a quick effort to find all the Js, J Es, J Fs etc. and eliminate those that are definitely not. This leaves some who are definite matches. I then have to make a judgement on the probables and possibles. I wont add in any data from the SRR unless I can be almost certain.

Incidentally, your analysis of 19th London men just confirms how much toing and froing there was throughout the war. It takes some pretty determined research to keep track of one individual, let alone many.

There was a huge amount in the 19th - from SDGW I reckon that the 1/19th in the 100 days was only 30% Londoners, with only 7% from St Pancras cf 100% St Pancras in 1914. The other 70% came from all over the country, but with a bias to the home counties. This is where I have found the Absent Voters Lists so important. I have 6,800 officers and men in the database so far, with an estimated 3,000 or so to add in.

Charles

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