Remembering the Doughboys 1918

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Remembering the Doughboys who first saw action in WW1 late August/Early September 1918.

Ian

[paul guthrie]

Ian they first saw offensive action May 28 at Cantigny. The Marines and Army saw action at Belleau Wood and Vaux in June. Four US divisions played a part in the French offensive near Soissons July 18. The first substantial battle in which they were the primary force was St. Mihiel Salient battle which began September 12.

There were actually a few killed in action in 1917 after US entered war April, 6.

Did the US enable the Allies to win when they would not have won otherwise with its MILITARY participation? Look at WFA site for my article titled America Enters the War, a bad title not descriptive of the subject , I did not title it.

In a word answer is no.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Sorry Paul - the Doughboys in this picture first saw action on 31 August 1918 - 21 of them were Killed.

Ian

[paul guthrie]

Now I see what you meant. What's their unit and where were they killed?

[Neil Burns]

Hi Ian & Paul,

I'm going to say 30th Division ?

They served with the British in Belgium where exactly on August 31? Dunno.

If only I were home with my books!

Neil

[garyem1]

I have a Dough Boy, video. They refused to fight under British command, because of the slaughter of the British troops before them. They thought the British commanders would use them as cannon foder. They still took a pasting. Will run through the vid tommorow if you want some more info.

gary

[CROONAERT]

I'm going to say 30th Division ?

They served with the British in Belgium

So did the 27th.

I've just gone through my casualty listings (roughly!) looking for the 31st August and I think that (without an extreme hi-tec close up on the left hand collar discs of the soldiers in the photo!), it will be impossible to name the unit (unless Ian already knows it!!! ) as several units, in different parts of the line received numerous casualties on this day.

As I said, I've only "scanned over" my records, but it seems that the 29th Division was hit on this day in the Argonne region, with multiple casualties for both the 115th infantry regiment and the 116th. I've also come across a few casualties on this date for the 104th Engineers. Saying this, my "scan" also reveals numerous casualties in both the 119th Reg. of the 30th Div. and the 105th reg of the 27th Div, both serving with the Brits up in the Flanders region. The 126th Inf.reg. of the 32nd Div also have a number of casualty returns for this date. (All this comes from just the first 5 or 6 pages of my lists, so I'm sure that there are many more units to mention).

I'll go through the lists deeper, when time permits, and see if I can find a unit who's casualties tally with the "21" figure for this date. (no promises, though - it's quite a task(but I've had lucky results in the past)).

Dave.

[CROONAERT]

(without an extreme hi-tec close up on the left hand collar discs of the soldiers in the photo!)

...just noticed. They don't seem to be wearing collar discs. This makes me think that this photo is of a recruit/training depot Stateside. The mix of O/S hats and Montana hats (and the style of building in the background) also seems to back this up.Maybe waiting disembarkation?

Dave.

[paul guthrie]

Gary US 27 NY National Guard and 30 Tennessee and North Carolina NG and I think some South Carolina served with British their entire time. Their big fights were in Flanders in August near Kemmel and Scherpenberg and with Australians at Hindenburg Line at St Quentin Canal near Riqueval.

You were also offered black 92 & 93 many of whom did quite well with French after you refused them. One, Freddie Stowers won a belated CMOH. They used French equipment and had French ration except we insisted they be given no wine, prone to rape and pillage don't you know, were given extra sugar!

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Gentleman,

Apologies - On the flipside of this photo the unit is give but has faded to be illegible. But what can be made out is 'First into action 31 August 1918. 21 of my buddies never saw Brooklyn again'.

Sorry Dave I don't think they all died on the same day.

I posted this picture just to remember the sacrifice these guys made.

Ian

[garyem1]

Sorry Paul,

I took this info off the narrator of the video, (The Dough Boys) I will run the vid again and try and find the units involved.

I was just trying to help

gary

[Neil Burns]

Gentlemen,

If it's Brooklyn it's most likely the 27th which was New York National Guard. There's no other reason to mention Brooklyn it wasn't a major point of embarkation.

I thought it might be stateside too but why hold up the flag which looks 'theater made' as they say? Might be stateside though, no shoulder insignia.

Dave, FOrgot about the 29th. D'oh!

Take care,

Neil

[paul guthrie]

Gary there was absolutely no reason to apologize. Neil, yes,, these guys are 27th Division since Brooklyn is in NY. Wish I knew where this was taken but don't think it was real close to the time they went into action.

When I get home I will look at American Armies and Battlefields In Europe (1938) and see just where they were on 8 31 18. I am pretty sure they were at Vierstraat near Kemmel where the US monument to these 2 divisions is now, that was their start point. It's Labor Day here and I will not be back until Tuesday AM.

On our recent WFA USA trip to the Salient which I put together we had the son of a 27th man with us.

Ian thanks for putting it up.

[Neil Burns]

From the 27th's Summary of Operations (Cut & Paste Sorry For the Typos)

The 53rd Infantry Brigade (27th Division) was Compsoed of the 106th and 105th Infantry which were the 2nd,23rd & 21st New York National Guard.

Take care,

Neil

27th Dlvlsion

RECORD OF EVENTS

June 16, Div (less detached units) moves to the vicinity of Abbeville,

southwest of the Somme Canal, in the St-Valery-Gamaches Area.

June 21, Div (less troops previously detached, and the machine gun

units which remain in the St-Valery Area) moves to the Beauval-

Doullens Area; the infantry trains in the forward areas, but all

troops are available for the defense of the rear lines. July 2, Div

(less Arty, 102d Sup Tn, and 102d Sn Tn) moves to the Arques Area;

the machine gun units rejoin. [July 3, the leading artillery troops

arrive at Camp de Souge from the base ports.] July 5, Div (less

Arty, 102d Sup Tn, and 102d Sn Tn) moves to the vicinity of Cassel

and St-Omer. July 9, 27th and 30th Divs are assigned to the organi-

zation and defense of t’he East Poperinghe Line, which is the third

position in the British system in the Dickebusch Lake and Scherpen-

berg Sectors; elements of Div begin front line training.

Julg 25Aug 18, Div (less Arty and 102d Sup Tn), afIXated

with British, participates in the occupation of the Dickebusch

Lake and Scherpenberg Sectors (Flanders). The machine gun

and infantry units serve by battalion, and other divisional troops

serve by detachments, with the Br 6th and Br 41st Divs in the front

line of the sector, which extends from 1% ‘km north-northwest of

Kemmel to the woods X km west of Elzenwalle. Aug 19, sector

occupation merges into the Ypres-Lys Operation.

Aug 19-Sept 3, Div (less Arty and 102d Sup Tn), participates

in the Ypres-Lys Operation. Nights Aug 22 and 23, Div

relieves the Br 6th Div in the front line of the Dickebusch Sector

from a point near Kaaleput to the vicinity of Elzenwalle; Aug 23,

the command passes to the 27th Div; Br 34th Div on the right,

30th Div (Br II Corps) on the left. Aug 30, the enemy withdraws

to western slopes of the Wytschaete Ridge. Aug 31, Div, 53d Inf

Brig leading, advances southeast to the road from Neuve-Eglise .to

Ypres, where the front extends from Rossignol Bois through

Vierstraat, to 1/2 km south of Voormezeele. Sept 1, Div advances its

right to a line extending from Haringhe Creek 1 km east of Goethals

Fme to the road yZ km northeast of Vierstraat. Sept 2-3, Div

crosses the line of Haringhe Creek and Wytschaete Creek and in

addition establishes a front west of the Bois Confluent, holding 1 km

of the road between Wytschaete and Voormezeele. Night Sept 213,

Br 41st Div relieves the Div. Sept 3, the command passes and the

Div moves to the Winnezeele Area. [sept 1, 52d FA Brig and 102d

Am Tn begin the move from Camp de Souge to the vicinity of

Longeville.

[paul guthrie]

The line of the 30th on their right went all the way to Lankof Farm which many of you know today for the 4 or 5 pillboxes there, all private property but a good view from the road. Glad this came up, had not realized these US troops were that close to Wipers.

I think the majority of the US dead at Flanders Field Cemetery at Waeregem were killed in this battle. Many were buried at Abele Airfield Cemetery at first, Plot one there is empty because they were moved. Most of the rest are 37 & 91 Div. men killed near Audenarde November 1 to 10.

As in all US WW1 cemeteries you will see unknowns under Stars of David, proportionate to their #s, not so WW2. Very pretty place.

Three of these men remain in Listhenhoek, know I spelled that wrong but... the only Americans with US forces still buried in the Salient.