Tracking down grandfather

[Terry]

The first medals I was given belonged to my grandfather, Henry James Burgess, born 1872, died 1925. Back in 1975 I wrote to the Army Records Centre for information, and I did receive some details, including: enlisted ASC short service engagement 29 May,1889; transferred to Army Reserve 22 Sept.,1894; recalled to army service 1 Jan.,1900; discharged termination of engagement 28 May,1910; enlisted ASC duration of war 16 Sept.,1914; discharged ceasing to fulfil army physical requirements 3 Oct.,1917; held rank of sergeant from 16 Sept.,1914 to 26 Aug.,1915.

Awarded QSA, clasps Natal,Orange Free State, Transvaal; KSA 2 clasps; 1914-15 trio.

I have a marvelous photo of him wearing his South Africa ribbons and five large white (?) chevrons on his lower left sleeve. I assume taken around 1910.

My mother has told me a story where supposedly her dad was at Gallipoli and struck an overenthusiastic young officer who was leading his men into a certain trap, and that her father eventually was invalided back to the UK where he met a nurse in hospital who eventually became my grandmother.

I sent another letter to the Ministry of Defence in 1979 inquiring about a possible LSGC medal. The reply stated: "... a scrutiny of your grandfather's service records reveals that he did not fulfil all the necessary qualifying conditions", and that he didn't receive the long service medal.

I am unsure if his loss of stripes in August,1915 is connected with the story of him striking a superior and not getting the LSGC gong. His total service adds up to nearly 19 years, but who knows if he behaved himself?

Can any Pals out there give me advice on what chances I might have in finding out anything else about good old Grand Dad or in determining what unit he served with in 14-18?

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Terry,

Have you made a trip to the PRO to look-up his service record?

If you have not, a search may yield the information you are looking for.

Ian

[Terry]

Hi Ian,

I have never had the opportunity to visit the PRO, and the sensible thing would be for me to get Jonathan Collins or some other researcher to see what they can find. In a conversation with my mother, she clarified two points. First, apparently he was not at Gallipoli, but on the Western Front, and he was gassed. Her father died in 1925, when she was seven, so obviously she doesn't recall a lot.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

............I am unsure if his loss of stripes in August,1915 is connected with the story of him striking a superior and not getting the LSGC gong...................

This is a most serious charge now let alone in 14-18, enough to get you court martialled now and probably shot then. In fact a Pte called Patrick Downey (one of the SAD people will correct or confirm this) was executed in Salonika for kicking an officer on the shin. I think this needs some verification.

Nice to hear how he met his met his wife to be.

Ian

[Terry]

Yes, I agree, especially after reading about some of the 14-18 executions. My Mum also used the word defiance in describing his actions, so I am willing to bet it may have been something more along the lines of disobeying an order rather than actually striking an officer. Obviously I will probably never know, but I will continue to investigate.

[michaeldr]

Ian,

Prof Tim Travers' book 'Gallipoli 1915' mentions Private Downey of 6th Leinster Regiment executed 1st Dec 1915 for what Travers describes as wilful defiance.

Travers also notes "...a rather chilling comment in the Deputy Judge Advocate's file indicates that Downey was executed because the GOC at Salonika (Munro) wanted this sentence carried out since there was a 'marked tendency towards insubordination...in that command.' Downey was therefore mainly an example to others."

Travers' very next words are also worth repeating; "The cursory nature of these courts martial are startling ..."

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Michael,

I think the case of Downey was referred to in the TV documentary 'Shot at Dawn' as well. He made some joke to his mates who were in the firing squad to 'make it a good one' or 'not to miss', something along those lines.

Ian

[trooper]

I believe Lt. General Sir Bryan Mahon was GOC British Salonika Force when Private Downey was SAD and Munro was GOC Mediterranean Expeditionary Force at the time. I am not sure which ordered the execution but if the former then Mahon was the former Divisional Commander of the division (10th Irish) of which the 6th Leinster's were a unit and would known if their were any problems with the battalion as suggested.

Trooper