Captured equipment

[Barry Hayter]

If the allies were in a position to salvage equipment from the enemy would the tend to reuse it or destroy it due to incompatibility etc?

I note in a dairy that two German 4.2 guns have been salved and I wondered what their fate would likely be.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Sent back to Regimental/Imperial War Museum?

There are pictures of Items "reserved" for the IWM in the War Illustrated of 1918,so it was obviously an option,I suspect some kit was "adopted" & other stuff sent to a dispersal unit for salvage,re~issue,or other disposal,or "souvenired",makes you wonder?

[Coldstreamer]

Hello

I would imagine that with all the strict rules and regulations of the day you couldnt deviate much from what you where told to do and use

ian

if only they had ebay then....

[picardowoods]

To add to this I have owned a British '03 pattern bayonet with German unit markings, issued in East Africa, Not sure if I have a pic of that or not, I do have a pic of a 'German' reserve unit all armed with Mossin Nagants.

Certainly in WW2 the Germans used arms from just about every nation they overran.

Carl

[Old Tom]

Hello,

I think it is well recorded that the Germans reused British tanks captured after Cambrai. I suppose the difficukty of many weapons would be ammunition and perhaps the tanks were captured with a fair part of their ammunition load intact. I believe they carried quite a lot.

Old Tom

[Robert Dunlop]

German equipment was reused by the allies, as well as destroyed. In the Battle of Vimy, trench mortar crews were specifically tasked with reusing German artillery once the gun line was overrun. The most recent example that I came across with machine guns shows a New Zealander lining up an MG 08 after the capture of La Signy Farm.

Robert

[themonsstar]

Hi All

Captures From the Enemy.

Captured Guns, Rifles, MG, Ammunition, & Eqpt are to be sent to Supply Railheads for transmission to C.O.O. Base.

The Railhead Ordnance Officer will give receipts for the numbers of guns,MG, & rifles and for the approximate quantity of ammunition. These receipts will be sent by Div to Corps HQ, for transmission to D.D.O.S., A.H.Q.

None of the above articles, with the exception of helmets,caps, badges, numerals & buttons, are to be retained by the troops as " trophies."

Trophies.

The following procedure will be followed in cases where a unit desires that a particular article, captured by it from the enemy, should be awarded to it for retention as a trophy after the war.

Applications for the award as trophies of war of such miscellaneous captured articles as enemy haversacks, waistbelts, frogs, will not be considered. Claims will only be submitted for articles which are likely to be of permanent interest, e.g., guns MG,trench mortars.

Captured Machine Guns, Trench Mortars etc.

A weekly statement of MG, TM, etc, will be rendered every Sunday by Corps to A.H.Q., in accordance with the form shown.

Captured Guns.

All captured guns which have fuzed shell in the bore will be cleared by firing the round; or, if this is impracticable, they will be cleared under the supervision of an I.O.M., before despatch to the Base. In cases where the I.O.M. does not consider this possible or safe, the gun will be destroyed, after the removal of any parts which are likely to be use.

Re-Captured British MG.

Vickers & Lewis guns re-captured from the enemy will not be treated as trophies, and claims for them as such will not be considered.

Specimens of German Equipment.

It is important that specimens of German clothing, Eqpt, ration, should be available for examination. Steps will be taken therefore, to secure such specimens whenever opportunity offers.

The Specimens will be dealt with as follows:-

Rations will be handed over to the nearest Supply Column, which will forward them to the nearest Field Supply Depot.

Other articles will be handed over to the Railhead Ordnance Officer.

Enemy Documents.

All documents captured from the enemy, or found in places occupied by the enemy,or which may contain information about the enemy, must be forwarded without delay to the nearest General Staff Officer.

Neglect to obey the instructions on this point not only endangers the safety and lives of comrades, but may also have a grave effect on the success of the operations. Such negligence must, therefore, be treated as a most serious offence. Those who connive at the suppression of documents will be held equally responsible with those who actually suppress them.

All this is from Standing Order for the Army 1st Jan 1918

[Bob Doneley]

Australia in particular was insistent that equipment captured by the AIF was to be sent to Australia as souveniers. Each town which had contributed men (& that was pretty much all of them) was allocated a weapon (deactivated) as a memorial. Lots of German machine guns and artillery pieces here! I've even seen a German trench mortar. And of course the Queensland museum has the world's only surviving German tank on display. (AFV7?)

Some of the larger artillery pieces were used for training in WW2, and not necessairly returned in good. For example, the AWM holds Big Bertha, but the gun carriage is gone - it was used by the army in WW2 and broken up for scrap at the end.

[Geoff Parker]

On the subject using capture equipment, one book I have which covers the use of gas during the Great

War, states that the British used a captured German battery and its supply of gas shells to bombard German

positions and if memory serves me correctly it was during the Allied 1918 offensive, but without looking it

up I can't remember exactly where this took place and I won't be home again until Tuesday. I believe this

was probably due to the limited quantity of 18pdr gas shells available in 1918.

If anyone specifically wants the location let me know and I will look it up during next week.

Geoff

[Coldstreamer]

Hello

on a slight tangent. I rememeber going to an RAF Wittering "family day" after the Falklands war in 1982 and they had an alladins cave of things they brought back - including vehicles

Seems if you have the means to carry it home...

Ian

[6th Shropshires]

The 1/K.S.L.I. captured a machine gun at Morteldje Estaminet on the 22nd April 1916 on relief by 2/York & Lancs they handed the gun to them. So captured guns were used by the British for a short period after capture, I guess there would be boxs of German ammo left in the captured positions. At the end of April The K.S.L.I. asked if they could have the Gun as a trophy. I think this gun is one of the M.G.'s now held at the Regimental Musuem. The Battalion had also asked if they could have a Flammenwerfer which they had captured on 9th August 1915 at Hooge but they had a letter back from 2nd Army saying it was being used for instructional purposes and could not be spared. I do not know if the Regiment ever got it back.

Annette

[Tim]

Australia in particular was insistent that equipment captured by the AIF was to be sent to Australia as souveniers. Each town which had contributed men (& that was pretty much all of them) was allocated a weapon (deactivated) as a memorial. Lots of German machine guns and artillery pieces here! I've even seen a German trench mortar. And of course the Queensland museum has the world's only surviving German tank on display. (AFV7?)

Some of the larger artillery pieces were used for training in WW2, and not necessairly returned in good. For example, the AWM holds Big Bertha, but the gun carriage is gone - it was used by the army in WW2 and broken up for scrap at the end.

Yes, we Aussie like our souveniers!

Mephisto: the last surviving German A7V Sturmpanzerwagen tank from the World War I is displayed in the Queensland Museum's 'Dinosaur Garden' (Grey Street, South Bank, Brisbane).

Although Britain and France developed several types of light, medium and heavy tank during the World War I, the Germans produced only one: the A7V. The prototype was completed and demonstrated in April 1917, but because of production delays the first operational A7V (Chassis Number 501) was not rolled out of the Daimler plant at Berlin-Marienfelde until October 1917. Only 20 A7Vs were built by the Germans, the rest of their tank force was made up of captured Allied vehicles.

Cheers,

Tim

[Barry Hayter]

Spot on as ever thanks .... very useful and the sort of info needed to quantify the comments in the dairy!

[Old Tom]

Hello,

A passing thought. As a child I recall that outside our village hall until, I guess 1940 when it would have been used for scrap, stood a German Field Gun. I also recall much more recently, in Kent (UK) a similar gun still on display, much corroded.

Old Tom

[bernardmcilwaine]

i think they would have used up the ammo before they sent them back to base,it makes sense to use up captured ammo rather than deplete your own supplies,theres been plenty of ref to using guns against their former owners,the germans still had a lot of captured british weaponry at the end of ww2,theres pictures of the volksturm marching out of berlin to face the russian army,many of them carrying lewis guns,bernard

[Druid_Ian]

supposedly there was an A7V stood outside of Lancaster Castle until 1940's when it was cut up for scrap. I have never seen a photo of it but would love to see one

[lassuy]

The A7V even used captured bits, the gun mounted in the front was a Belgian fieldpiece if memory serves me correctly.

[Owen D]

Am I right in thinking there are a couple of German Field Guns at the Beamish Open Air Museum?

[TonyE]

There are several pictures of British troops manning MG08s in captured trenches to defend against the counter attacking Germans. Similarly, the Germans went out of their way to capture Lewis guns as these were highly thought of. Their own MG08/15 and 08/18 were cumbersome by comparison.

Generally the Germans re-barrelled the Lewis guns to 7.92mm, but when they had large quantities of a particular enemy weapon thay made ammuniton for it. I have examples of 7.62 x 54R (Moisin Nagant) and 8mm Lebel rounds made by Polte in 1917/18. However, I do not believe that the Germans manufactured .303 during the war.

Regards

TonyE