Awarded Brevet

[chris basey]

Have seen the phrase 'awarded brevet', in King's Birthday Honours 'awarded brevet' and 'brevet-major (or whatever). I'm sure someone will be able to explain. Thank you.

[chris basey]

Have seen the phrase 'awarded brevet' on its own, in King's Birthday Honours 'awarded brevet' and 'brevet-major (or whatever). I'm sure someone will be able to explain. Thank you.

[ttd0]

I believe that brevet is to do with promotion in the field. I think I remember that brevet is only temporary.

Example:

A Captain is killed and a replacement is needed. One of the unit Lieutenants will be promoted to 'brevet' Captain but will relinquish this rank at the end of hostilities.

I believe this happened a lot with air crew in WWII. Quite a few pre war regulars finished WWII as Squadron Leaders / Wing Commanders but then had to revert to their pre war rank as their promotions were brevets.

I am sure someone will explain it better!

Tim

[Muerrisch]

I speak only of the Great War period and a little earlier. Infantry only, which is a big enough subject. I will do my best and stand to be corrected.

Normal progression through the commissioned ranks within one's regiment [ie 2Lt to Lt to Capt to Maj to Lt col] was by seniority. This could be seen by the frequently published Army List.

Within that regiment, once you were senior to a comrade, you were senior. Thus, for example, the senior man presided at a court martial.

The system of brevet rank was a means of marking out for distinction without disrupting the regimental system. Thus, a Major bt Lt Col would preside over all Majors at a Court Martial if it was at a level higher than regimental. Needless to say, the brevet attracted no extra pay.

But in the month in, month out grind up the regimental list, it availed nothing. Only in the most exeptional circumstances was regimental seniority upset.

One sees officers who were Captains in 1914, rose by all manner of means to T/Brigadier by 1917 or so, picked up a substantive step and a brevet step along the way, and were still in no position to command a battalion of their own regiment [with regimental seniority as Lt Cols] when the war ended.

[michaeldr]

LB,

Since I too am in the dark on this one can I tap into Chris' thread and ask for clarification regarding the difference between brevet/temporary/honorary?

While looking for someone's MiD, I pulled a page from the LG and found along with my chap someone else described as "Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel (temporary Brigadier-General)"

Incidentally, the fellow that I was looking for was gazetted in July 1915 "Temporary Captain (Honorary Lieutenant-Colonel) .....to be Temporary Major"

Thanks in advance for any help

Michael D.R.

[Guest birdflightless]

Hi Chris,

Brevet, in the encarta dictionary, has its meaning given as -

"Militaty promotion, a temporary promotion of a military officer without anincrease of pay".

Hope this helps to answer your query.

Stewart

[Muerrisch]

Encarta hopelessly wrong in that case, certainly re. British Army and certainly in our period.

Kings Regs, Pay Warrant, Mil Org and Admin and just about every source I have are as near useless as makes no difference. Perhaps the word brevet was so well understood that it was never necessary to define it.

However. Major Gordon's "Military Origins" of 1971 is, I believe broadly [perhaps completely] applicable to 1418 so, unless someone comes up with better, here is a summary.

Brevet [French] in French service was a warrant from sovereign to carry out a specific duty.

In British army means an appointment to a rank immediately above substantive rank of holder. A reward for service, qualifies holder to obtain next vacancy in rank over the heads of his equal-ranking regimental colleagues. Conveys no regimental seniority until that vacancy, and no pay either. Only three ranks can obtain: captain, major, lt. colonels. On duties outside regiment eg court martials, conveys seniority of the brevet rank over regimental equals.

Gordon goes on to deal with substantive, acting and temporary rank. Briefly, substantive is the rank below which you can not be reduced except by court martial, acting rank is intended to be very short term "acting up", temporary is awarded [together with pay, badges of rank and widow's privileges] where, although there is no regimental vacancy, there is an operational need, such as to command a company.

[charlesmessenger]

To clarify slightly what David Langley has said about acting and temporary rank. Acting rank was granted to someone holding a position above their own rank. Pay of rank was granted after 28 days' satisfactory service in that post. It was removed once the officer relinquished that post. Temporary rank was slightly more permanent in that the officer retained that rank for the duration of hostilities. If a Regular officer, he could expect to relinquish it once the Army reverted to its peacetime size.

Charles M

[Muerrisch]

Charles, well said, I knew I should not have paraphrased so harshly but I was on a two-minute warning for a [hot and cooling] lunch as I recall.

[michaeldr]

Steady LB,

There's none of our questions is worth either indigestion or the wrath of she-who-sweats-by-the -stove

Thanks to you and to Charles M for your enlightening replies

I think that part of the my confusion with the Temp Capt (Hon Lt Col) now Temp Major

is that he came from the Yeomanry/Territorial Force

By 1917 he is referred to by the LG as "Temp. Lt-Col..... (Hon Lt-Col in Army)....."

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Muerrisch]

I think you will find these 'Hon ..... in the Army' ranks are a hangover from the conversion/ assimilation of the Militia in 1908 when officers with existing commissions had some preserved rights. Not quite my subject, I am still trying to understand the private soldiers' Proficiency pay, service pay, corps pay, good conduct pay .... I'll get there someday.

[Max]

Just to add to the confusion, I recently came across a Captain (acting major, temporary Lt-Col).

[Muerrisch]

Have a care, two non-identical threads share this title. I have warned a grown and asked for a sort.

[munce]

I'm not convinced that officers kept their temporary rank for the hostilities, as I've seen several examples in the LG of officers relinquishing their temp rank (with the war still on) on completion of whatever task they had been appointed to it for in the first place; and sometimes appointed to a different temporary rank for a different task in the same entry.