Voices from the Great War

[spike10764]

When I first picked up this book and flicked through it ,I must admit I was unimpressed.To the casual glance it looks a jumble of disorganised quotes poems and thoughts on the Great War. Eventually I decided to read it and I must say I couldn't put it down.

It consists of poems and quotes and thoughts on the War, from peolple who lived through it, were affected by it, or have studied it. Interspersed with these are small paragraphs in italics, setting the scene for the sets of quotations to follow, by describing the events of the war at the time.

This it does rather well in my opinion,and each year of the War and it's aftermath get a chapter of their own. The sources range from Marie Curie to Sigmund Freud, Apollinaire to Wilfrid Owen, paupers to princes and all in between.

For me the best bit about any book is it's ability to surprise me and hold my attention rapt-and this one did it for me.

Recommended

.......Regards

..................Spike

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Spike,

Totally agree with you. One of the narrators is Harry Patch of the DCLI who is still alive and kicking at 104!

An excellent read and one for the Xmas list.

Ian

[Chris_B]

I agree with other posters, would recommend it for those who find "narrative/oral history" compelling. Its a bit like Lyn MacDonald's stlye.

Was Harry Patch one of the old soldiers used for narration of the recent channel 4 "World War One in Colour" series? Absolutely spellbound by him. Best thing about the programs was all the narration.

[salientpoints]

I don't know if Harry Patch did any narration for the Channel 4 series - which you must mean The First World War (or do you mean World War 1 in Colour on Channel 5?) but you can find out more detail and read all the episode transcripts with their sources here for C4 - http://www.warkclements.com/firstworldwar/ If you mean the C5 series, I have yet to watch it (got on DVD) but if this is the one let me know and I will ask a man who knows...

Ryan

[Will O'Brien]

Was Harry Patch one of the old soldiers used for narration of the recent channel 4 "World War One in Colour" series? Absolutely spellbound by him. Best thing about the programs was all the narration.

Chris

Kenneth Branagh narrated on this series but Harry Patch features heavily.

[David Filsell]

My opinion will doubtless be disagreed with, but I judge "Voices" history to be rarely satisfactory. The key problems are that proper supporting contextualisation of the quotations are frequently lacking by lazy writers and there is, and cannot often be, any allowance for false or failed memory. In recent years many of those whose words have been printed are from a self selecting - by age and survival - group of combatants. What one is hearing may well be that which the interviewee believes to be true - but one sound basic rule in writing history is are there should be "two proofs" to support assertions, or claimed statements of fact. Like many biographies, voices books, rarely contain sufficient strong supporting evidence for assertions baldy published and then simply written as fact. The words "he/she claimed" are rarely used it seems. They should be.

[charlesmessenger]

David

 

Hear! Hear!

 

Charles M 

[Guest]

   I post a rant I had on the great "Who is this?" thread.  The current state of access regarding the paperwork of the Great War interviews of the Sixties might elucidate their historical worth a great deal. Whatever the Beeb paperwork shows, they are still a great piece of broadcasting and a great piece of History.

   I had a good-humoured dig at Ron,as even "TWTIK" is not free from later value judgements. I had one local officer casualty who was killed with 2RWF in 1914 and looked forward excitedly to him being well represented by Dunn. As it is, my man -Captain Loscombe Law Stable-gets one mention for purloiing a handcart while the battalion foraging officer. Stable's family were wealthy and had his letters home privately printed up at the time-IWM holds the only copy I can track without tackling the family direct ( His nephew is a retired local judge of some distinction-Owen Stable,noted for sitting with his dog beside him).  As Stable was KIA on 21st October 1914, then I was not expecting much-but the volume had some sparkling lucid and compelling writing  by a literate pre-war career officer. .Not used by Dunn-so the first chapters of TWTIK are unbalanced and sketchy- 2RWF had a very trying time of it during the great retreat of 1914. Like all later amalgam works, it must be used with caution.

   As regards the BBC Great war interviews,it was well-known that the attraction for "Tonight" was the huge quantity of cheapo newsreel kicking around from the war.  How the series and the interviews were put together is an interesting topic in itself-If anyone knows owt about this, then shout out (Apart from the buttons being the wrong way stuff- this is already part of folklore)

•  #10176

Posted 28 May 

  On 28/05/2018 at 15:37, Ron Clifton said:

It could well be argued (by me, anyway) that the history of any major event cannot be completed until all those who have taken part in it have died, since their experiences are influenced by their recollections of their part in it and cannot, therefore, be regarded as technically unbiased.

 

We have to begin by re-naming Captain Dunn's famous book as "The War in France that 2nd Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers Knew."

 

Ron

 

   Thanks Ron- I must, I fear, correct you on one small point  . The sub-title of Captain Dunn's book is " Chronicle of Service in France and Belgium"- not just France.  Dunn's book is a case in point of one issue. He compiled it AFTER the war (Book published 1930-something)with access to his own and the other diaries of which he had use Nothing Dunn has is-as far as I  know- not founded on first-hand account. There are problems with the selection of the records of others by him A literary amalgam represents the outlook of the editor, rather than than a value-free selection based on a true reflection of diaries. A modern editor using the same materials might pull together a completely different selection. 

    As to the  view that recollections by those who are involved are biased- well, yes of course they are.  What concerns me is that "recollections" vary across the passage of time.  A recurring problem with oral history is that the interviewee may give the answers that the interviewer wishes to hear- let alone the problem of how the interviewer phrases the question (best exemplified by Caroline Aherne as Mrs Merton to Debbie McGee-"What was it that first attracted you to multi-millionaire Paul Daniels?).  

 

     I have an example of this in my own family. My dear old Dad was an airborne signaller at Arnhem- Royal Corps of Signals, went in on Day 2,wounded by German flak on the way in). A humble private-spoke very little about it and died the year after "A Bridge Too Far" came along at the cinema. He was critical of the Cornelius Ryan book as it was officer-centric and one officer in particular- not long departed- who often pops up in accounts of Arnhem. I will not name him on GWF but you may take an informed guess. Dad used to say that this man had a very selective memory and most of his encounters with this man showed him as not so glorious  (And anyone who has seen-yet again on Junko TV the D-Day episode of "World at War" must come close to retching as Mountbatten gives a glossed version of his role in Dieppe and  how it was all part of his wonderful master plan- Ludo Kennedy's pen portrait of him in "On My Way to the Club"  lances that particular unctuous ego).  

     But "History" is what we choose to regard as "true".  I like very much the "Great War" interviews-if only because-as Edwardians- all the Brits. in it speak as we would expect them to speak-plummy as with Henry Williamson and "Gor Blimey" from the Other Ranks. Also liked the "Game of Ghosts" stuff-where the "selection" was more by the chance of longevity (and lack of ga-ga)  which came across as convincing.  [And as it is on another thread at the moment- my understanding of the importance of the Great War intervews of the 1960s would be much better if the BBC paperwork about it-eg What Questions to Ask?- was freely available)

   One of my favourite films is the 1946 "Best years of Our Lives"-mawkish,sentimental and stylised by our outlook of today but -just perhaps- there were many of the Great War who felt the same. Certainly, my relatives and neighbours of the Second World War generation regarded it as so- despite the miseries and hardships. I suspect that it was so for the Great War as well but the narrative of the grim Western Front is the one that prevails.

Edited 28 May