RFA or RFC

[Will O'Brien]

I have been doing some research on a chap who was conscripted in June 1916. His name was Harry Barnes. Information I have gleaned from newspaper articles suggest that he served with the Royal Flying Corps until June 1917 when he transferred to the Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment). His peacetime profession was a Trimmer & as such I can see that it would be logical for him to serve with the RFC. However I cannot understand for the life of me why someone would want to transfer from what would appear to be a ground based job in the RFC to an Infantry Regiment. Very recently however there has been a suggestion that Harry Barnes did not serve with the RFC at all but the RFA.

Has anyone got any ideas of verifying which is correct (other than doing the usual searches at Kew which I am trying to aviod at this stage in my research on the chap)

Also just to add to the confusion CWGC site states Harry Barnes served with 2nd/4th City of London Regt Royal Fusiliers when he was killed in October 1917 but the mother site states this battalion disbanded in 1916 - Am I losing it or can someone explain

Will

[Terry Denham]

This may not be relevant in this case but....

You should be aware that dates of death on the CWGC site can legitimately occur after the disbandment of the named unit.

If a soldier was wounded before the date of disbandment but died of the wounds afterwards, he will still be listed as being from that unit. The last unit served in is the one listed even if it no longer existed.

In the same way, the CWGC records give no indication if a casualty was still serving at his death or whether he died of wounds/illness after discharge. He is still listed as being from his last unit and the record will appear exactly the same as that of a serving casualty. Therefore, you could get an RFC casualty dying after 01.04.18 - being a discharged wounded man prior to 01.04.18 but dying afterwards.

Does that make sense?

[Will O'Brien]

Does that make sense?

Terry - it makes perfect sense thank you. A useful peice of infomtation & i'm sure it will be applicable to a number of the chaps i'm researching. I don't think it's the case with this chap Harry Barnes though as he was Missing in Action.

Will

[Alan Seymour]

I expect you may already have this information taken from 'Soldiers Died in the Great War' which confirms his R.F.C conection.

BARNES, Harry, Private 68385

Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) Posted 2/4th London

Enlisted Bletchley

Residence Stantonbury

kia 26/10/17 France & Flanders

Formerly 3470, R.F.C.

The following is taken from 'British Regiments 1914-1918' by Brig. E. A. James, O.B.E., T.D.

The original 2/4th (City of London) Battalion (Royal Fusiliers) The London Regiment, was disbanded in France by June 1916. After which the 3/4th Bn. became 2/4th and they landed at Havre 24.1.17 and served in France until disbanded 12.9.18.

[Will O'Brien]

Alan

Yes I had looked at the SDGW some time ago but I'd obviously not picked up the RFC reference from it. My notes didn't show any cross referencing to the info I found in the archived newspaper. I'm not as smart as I think So many thanks for highlighting that.

I know the SDGW isn't always accurate but that's two seperate references to the RFC so I'm happy with the assumption he previously served with them. As I said previously the RFA reference only came to my attention very recently & I am unsure whether the source is reliable or not. What springs to mind is that what I saw was a typo & should have read RFC & not RFA.

Many thanks for explaining the situation regarding his battalion & the re-incarnation of the 2/4th. Do you know whether this sort of renumbering of a battalion was common place?

Will

[Alan Seymour]

Will,

Had some spare time this afternoon so some more information taken from page 320 of "The War History of the 4th Battalion The London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers) 1914-1919" by Captain R. Clive Grimwade 4th Battalion, The London Regiment.

The 26th October (1917) must be regarded as one of the most unfortunate days ever experienced by the 2/4th Londons. The gallantry of officiers, NCO's and men alike left nothing to be desired, and their defeat was at the hands of the elements far more than of the Germans. So bad indeed was the state of the ground that not a few men, becoming stuck in the mud and exhausted by their efforts to extricate themselves, met their death by drowning in the flooded shell holes.

For their good work on this day decorations were awarded to Capt. C. A. Clarke (the MC) and Pte C. H. W. Roberts (the DCM).

The casualties sustained in this unfortunate affair were in officers: 2/Lieuts. F. J. Jones, H. G. Langton and J. R. Naylor, killed; 2/Lieut. R. J. Richards, died of wounds; Capts. R . C. Dickins and D. S. Boorman, M.C., 2/Lieuts. G. E. Lester, R. Michell, H. A. Snell and A. W. Dodds, wounded and in N.C.O.’s and men 25 killed, 214 wounded and 109 missing – a total of 359 all ranks. This was the most costly single day in the history of the 2/4th Battalion.

The 2/4th Londons spent five days at Brake Camp cleaning up, resting and reorganising, moving on the 1st November to Roads Camp, and on the following day to St Jans-ter-biezen, about four miles west of Poperinghe. The Battalion was now reduced to an organisation of one company for fighting purposes, pending the arrival of further reinforcements to fill the gaps created on the 26th October.

[Will O'Brien]

Alan

That is fantastic. Thanks very much for posting that extract. It gives me a much clearer picture what happened on that day. Dreadful loses for a single day & the conditions sounded appauling.

Will