French 45th Algerian Division

[Janus]

Can anyone tell me whether the French 45th Algerian Division, ever fought with the 38th Division, 114 Brigade, 15th Battalion Welsh Regiment from 1915-1918. I've been told that they did but I'm not so convinced.

[Geoff Parker]

The 45th Algerian Rgt were holding the northern part of the Ypres Salient in

April 1915 when the Germans first used gas. They were badly effected and fled the field. 1st Bn Welsh Regt were in the Salient at this time with 84th Bde, 28th Div.

What happen to the 45th Algerians after this I can't say. Certainly 15th Bn Welsh

Rgt would not have appeared in France until much later.

Geoff

[CROONAERT]

The 45th also fought alongside the British troops at the Chemin-des-Dames in may 1918.

Dave.

[Janus]

Thanks for the info.

[Adam Harland]

The answer to your original question is no for Ypres, as the 38th Div didn't travel to france until later in 1915.

The 45th Division ( not Algerian by title, but consisting of African troops) was raised on 19/8/14, and consisted of the 89 and 90 brigdes, which became 90 and 91 as someone discoverd there was already an 89th Bde inthe 76th Infantry Division.

It fought on the Marne, the Aisne and in the first battle of Artois in 1914.

From 13/4/15 until 8/6/15 it occupied the sector between Poelcappelle and Langemarck ( and described in the French official history as in liaison with the British army)

Aprill22 is noted for the 'german attack with gas, and violent french counterattacks'.

They then moved to another sector between Boesinghe and Het Sas.

They were engaged in attacks and fighting around Hill17 (Cote 17) from 16/5 to 30/5.

From 14/4 to 1/5 the Division was grouped with the 87th Territorial div, as Groupement d'Elverdinghe under the command of the GOC 45th Div, General Quiquandon.

On 7/6/15 this organisation was reintroduced as groupement sud.

on8/6/15 the Div was relieved by the British army and went to a new sector between Boesinghe and Steenstraate ( again in liaison with the British and Belgian armies.

From 30/9 to March 16 they were in reserve with elements in the line around Nieuport.

This would seem to be the best bet for contact with the 38th Div.

1916 saw engagement at Verdun and in the Sept attacks on the Somme.

Oct16 to jan 17 was back to Nieuport and St Georges.

1917 is away from all contact with the British.

1918 is again in liaison with the British army in the (French) 3rd battle of the Aisne, our battle of Soisonnais and the Ourcq. This was with the french IV Army. 38th Div (BR) was not engaged in this fighting.

So if there was any contact with 38th Div, it would appear most likely to have occured in the line around Nieuport in 1915 or 1916.

Hope that is of some help

Adam

[Jacky Platteeuw]

There is indeed no possibility that the 2 Divisions ever fought together. I don't know in what context the question is asked but the fact is that the AREA were the 45th Division ended up and took a stand on 22th April 1915 is mostly the AREA were the 38th Welsh Division attacked on 31 July 1917 (Battle of Pilckem Ridge): the start of 3rd Ypres.

Jacky

[Aurel Sercu]

I can only confirm what Jacky wrote. (Of course. What else can I do. For Jacky is always right ! That is, in these matters.

So : 45 Div. and 38th Div. (113 and 114 Brigade) in same area, east bank of the Yser Canal, and approx. 1 mile south east of the centre of the village of Boezinge.

15th Bn. Welsh Regiment attacked from Lancashire Farm (west of Pilkem Road).

Same area, but with a difference of 2 years.

Aurel