old soldiers

[Muerrisch]

The thread on under-age soldiers has been most interesting, and yet my heart goes out to the old boys. As one who was a keen Boy Scout, hiking, trekking, camping, climbing, I could just about see myself as coping at 16, if not with battle, at least with the hardships. But soldiering is for young men, and by the time I was 35 I had spent my last night under canvas [although I still do a lot of hill walking and am a pensioner].

Spare a thought for the elderly, therefore. My oldest 2RWF recorded is Private John Edward Hughes 36677, enlisted Manchester c. October 1915, died of wounds 8 November 1916, buried Grove Town Cemetery, aged 48 years. His headstone adds "Gone but not forgotten". Indeed.

There are eleven others aged 40 years or over on my data base of all known names of 2RWF other ranks, died or survived.

The oldest officer deaths were two at 47, both South African War veterans.

[Simon Furnell]

It amazes me as well,Langley,that these men were able to cope with the western front,at their "advanced age".

I know that i would be hard pushed to survive the mud of 3rd Ypres,at my age of 36(let alone attacking a pillbox on my own,with hand grenades),for a day!

Both of my great-grandads were KIA in their 30's,during World War One.

Oscar was a veteran of 3rd Ypres and the March offensive,and was killed,aged 33,during the battle of Villers-Bretonneux,in April 1918.

John was killed,aged 36,while serving with the Labour Corps,in late September of 1918.

As you say,there were many that were older,even the odd one that was past retirement age,but still they stuck it.

It was another world that these guys were living in.

No welfare state for a start,and they were used to hard graft and having to put up with menial things,job wise,health wise,right up until they dropped!

Some lessons to be learnt here,for the latest generation's,i believe.

Having said that,there is still the odd 36 year old,who would have a go if needed.

I just hope they have a good gym!!!

All the best.

Simon.

[John_Hartley]

The oldest on my memorials was 50. Capt Herbert Rose was killed at Gallipoli, 4 June 1915 whilst serving with 1/8th Manchesters. He'd been a Territorial since 1884 and worked for a hankerchief printers (many Mancs territorials worked in the "rag trade").

[Annette Burgoyne]

I was only thinking this myself the other day, I am getting near 40 and had spent an hour running around and was well and truly knackered, ten years ago I could have played two games in one weekend without no problem. Now the Great War is always passing through my mind and I thought of the chaps who were my age or older and had to attack over muddy ground with heavy loads, it must have been very hard for these older blokes.

The 6th K.S.L.I.'s C.O. went over the top with the first wave of his Battalion on the 16th Aug. 1917, I do not know how old he was but he was no spring chicken. He got stuck in mud up to his waist at one point. After they had captured their objectives he was so knackered that he fell asleep and another officer took command until he woke.

I have one chap in my database aged 53 when killed in action, that is as long as C.W.G.C. records are correct, I have not checked. I also have 40 men over the age of 40 in my database (I only looked at half of the database).

Annette

[Frank_East]

While in Tyne Cot ,I came across this casualty from what I would think was the Battle of Passendaele,Private J.N.Crowley of the AIF Infantry who died in front line action at the age of 52 years.

Looking at the inscription,"Though wounded in the morning.He fought till evening when he fell". An example of unrewarded courage from an old soldier.

Regards

Frank East

[Andrew P]

In my research on Fremantle people in WW1, I've come across quite a few in their 40's who served. Many of the older age men seemed to serve in the Remount Units & Tunnelling Companies.

So far the oldest Fremantle chap I've found who died was a John George Cosson.

He served in the 16th Bn and joined this unit on Gallipoli and was wounded on the 07/08/15 . He was in the last party of the 16th Bn to leave Gallipoli on the morning of evacuation.

He won the DCM with the 16th Bn and when the AIF doubled in size, Cosson went on to serve in the 48th Bn in France where he was Mentioned in Dispatches. He was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant and unfortunately was killed exactly a year after he was wounded at Gallipoli, on the 07/08/16 at Pozieres.

He has no known grave and is commemmorated on the Villers Brettoneux Memorial.

He was 50 when he was killed and was born at Barnes, England.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

One thing to consider when thinking about the older soldiers is that unlike today, many did manual work and were far more use to physical exertion. Most of us probably sit at a desk or in a car seat. Although our diet is a lot better and we weigh more, I reckon these men would have just got on with the job.

IMHO.

Ian

[Myrtle]

When older soldiers are mentioned I think of Pte John M. Davies 1st Bn. KSLI who was reported to be 50 when he dow on 10th September 1915. I have the suspicion from looking at the 1901 census that he was 54 when he died. The local newspaper report read as follows:

"He was one of the best known characters in Rhayader, and on learning of his death, many were heard saying,'Poor old Jack.' "

[peterd]

In "The first day on the Somme" Martin Middlebrook refers to Henry Webber, a 68 year old Stockbroker who became a subaltern and transport officer in 7 Bn South Lancs. Webber had sons serving in France. Sadly hr died.

[Terry]

As I have mentioned earlier on another thread, the Collingwood Bn 1914 Star trio in my collection is accompanied by the fellow's Victorian Naval Long Service & Good Conduct medal awarded in 1897! Perhaps someone can clarify the number of years of service required in the 1890's to earn the medal, but regardless, PO1 Rolls must have been on the far side of fifty when he was serving in Antwerp.

[Neil Mackenzie]

So far the oldest Fremantle chap I've found who died was a John George Cosson.

Andrew.

There may be a bit of confusion over 2nd Lt Cosson.

The history of the 48th Batallion by W Devine calls him Jack Cosson and describes him as 'a cheery, shrewd old bookmaker of the West'. He was one of 6 officers in the Battalion killed on the 6 August.

However, the CWGC site (which names him as John George) says he was 45 years old. He was gazetted for the DCM on 2nd June 1916 when a Private in the 16th Battalion. There is another Gazette entry (an M.I.D. ?) on 11 July 1916 by which time he is a Corporal.

Neil

[Andrew P]

Hi Neil

I was mistaken in my first post as his Mentioned in Dispatches was for his work at Gallipoli, not France.

The DCM he was awarded was back dated to his work on Gallipoli. Many of the AIF Battalions did not get their award recommendations in for Gallipoli until 1916, which may be why Cosson is given the different rank by the 16th Battalion regarding the two different awards.

As by June 1916, Cosson was with the 48th Bn.

I've taken his age of 50 from the forms that were filled out by his wife which indicate that at the time of his death, Cosson was 50 years old. Like many of the older men enlisting earlier in the war he most likely put his age down to be accepted into the AIF.

Cheers

Andrew

[Neil Mackenzie]

Thanks Andrew - the only confusion was mine.

Neil

[CROONAERT]

While researching something completely different today, I came across this article that caught my eye from the November 4th 1916 edition of the "Burnley Express". I thought it may be of interest....

Dave.

[gem22]

And who said 'war is a young man's game"?

Hands up all those out there who regret the passing of Physical Exercise in schools? When I think of all the rugby, soccer, cricket, hockey, 'athletics', swimming, PT, and cross sountry runs I did as a boy, (compulsory of course) it still makes me sweat; and as our school was an army school we 'had' to do drill parades as well, including rifle drill with an SMLE.

Ah!!! the good old days.

Garth

[Adrian]

Although he did not die overseas, Eli Cornwell (father of Jutland VC Jack) was nevertheless doing his 'bit' on the Essex coast in the Royal Defence Corps when he passed away in 1916 at the age, according to one of my local papers, of 64.