The Great War in Modern Memory

[Fleur]

Has anyone read this book??

It was chosen by someone (can't remember who now, it was the one that was on the week before last) on Desert Island Discs as the book they would take with them.

Just wondered if it was worth getting hold of a copy.

Fleur

[paul guthrie]

It is the finest book of criticism I have ever read, displays an amazing amount of knowledge, really overwhelming how much you do not know.

[Fleur]

oooh, that's kinda what the guy on D.I.D. said.

I'll go see if I can't track me down a copy

Thanks

Fleur

[gem22]

Fleur

Try this website if you are really interested in getting a copy www.addall.com

Go into the used book section and enter title. Plenty of copies available ranging from £10 to £60

Garth

[Fleur]

Thanks for the info Garth

Fleur

[ianw]

Yes, it's a wonderful book , Fleur. Must re-read my copy soon. Thought provoking and profound stuff on every page. Unique.

[Terry_Reeves]

Abebooks.com have 97 copies for sale. Pick your price and the bookseller.

Terry Reeves

[munce]

You can get a new copy from Amazon for only £8 (although at the moment it'll take 3 - 5 weeks to be dispatched).

[Clive Maier]

Paul Fussell’s The Great War and Modern Memory is not a book about the conflict per se, but about the way in which it was retrospectively perceived in literature. It goes on to examine the bearing this literature had on subsequent understandings of the war. In effect, the literature became to an extent the history. The viewpoint is expressly that of the British experience on the Western Front.

It is a magnificent book of epic scholarship. For those interested in the cultural impact of the war, it is simply indispensable.

[Guest Hussar]

Next to John Ellis's 'Eye Deep in Hell', TGWIMM is, probably, my most read book

[Chris_B]

I'm a bit late on this one, but you might be interested to read what Gary Sheffiled has to say about Paul Fussell's book.

"Fussell does indeed bring important insights to our understanding of the First world War, but his book has distinct drawbacks as history. His evidence is taken from a tiny handful of literary sources, and as he readily admitted, the book was 'really about the Vietnam War as much as it is about the First World War'.

Among the laudatory reviews of The Great War and Modern Memory some critics struck a discordant note. Charles Carrington, a veteran of the Western Front who later became an academic historian, was markedly scathing, while historians Robin Prior and Trevor Wilson memorably dissected the book in an article-length review. Aside from pointing out Fussell's factual errors, they raise the important point that he ignores the war at sea and the mobilisation of British society and economy for total war. These immensely important facets of the Great War were 'not tragic, ironic, or self-evidently futile, yet Fussell is solely interested in the supposedly 'futile' aspects of the Western Front. Moreover, in keeping with his view of the 'senseless' nature of the 1914-1918 conflict, Fussell does not include a worthwhile discussion of the causes of the war, or the issues at stake, and the Allied victories of 1918 are all but ignored. Fussell' attempt in a subsequent book to depict the 1939-1945 [war] as 'futile' has received much less sympathy".

Gary Sheffield - Forgotten Victory chapter 1 pp18-19

[Clive Maier]

It is a good rule in book reviewing to review the book the author wrote, not all the ones he did not write. Fussell's very first words in his preface are:

This book is about the British experience on the Western Front from 1914 to 1918 and some of the literary means by which it has been remembered, conventionalized and mythologized.

[ianw]

Totally agree Clive. Prior and Wilson wrote the brilliant "Command on the Western Front" . It would be equally absurd to criticise it for ignoring the literary aspects of the Great War.

[paul guthrie]

Sheffield's comments are irrelevant and ridiculous. It is not even remotely a book about the military aspects of WW1.

[munce]

To be fair to Sheffield, the point of his comments about Fussell's book was that for many people, the literary 'version' of the Great War -- as encapsulated so well by Fussell -- has become the only version they know. Sheffield wanted to point out the very fact that Paul, Ian, and Clive make, in that The Great War and Modern Memory wasn't written about the military or historical aspects of the war. Sheffield was saying that if we want information about these things, we have to look elsewhere.

[David_Blanchard]

If we also want to look elsewhere about the 'cultural' aspect about the way in which the Great War has been remembered I would recommend 'A War Imagined: The First World War and English Culture' by Samuel Hynes ( 1990) deals with broadly similiar themes to Fussell, but perhaps considers the literary and painterly aspects more.

I would also recommend Paul Fussell's sons book called 'Confessions of an unlikely Bodybuilder' by Sam Fussell. Not WWI related but an excellent read about men and their obsessions.

[Clive Maier]

To be fair to Sheffield ...

I think you are being more than fair to Sheffield, and certainly fairer than Sheffield was to Fussell. Sheffield refers to Fussell taking his evidence “from a tiny handful of literary sources”. In my edition, acknowledgments to extensively quoted works in copyright cover the best part of two densely printed pages. The chapter notes of sources take up 17 pages. Sheffield also passes on criticisms that are irrelevant to Fussell’s book but never acknowledges that irrelevance. By contrast, he does not feel any need to quote any of the “laudatory reviews”.

[Clive Maier]

If we also want to look elsewhere about the 'cultural' aspect about the way in which the Great War has been remembered I would recommend 'A War Imagined: The First World War and English Culture' by Samuel Hynes ( 1990) deals with broadly similiar themes to Fussell, but perhaps considers the literary and painterly aspects more. ...

I am very glad to have your recommendation. I have had that Hynes book in mind for some time but I have never seen it, so I was not sure whether I should go for it.

[David_Blanchard]

To be fair to Sheffield there are a number of generalisations in Fussell's book that are not good history:

Page 41: ...even in the quiter times some 7,000 British men and officers were killed and wounded daily, just as a matter of course.'

Fussell also claims that the book is about 'the British experience on the western front from 1914 to 1918' but this is not I contend, the way in which my great uncle (a private on the western front) from a working class background in the north east would have remembered the Great War. Many middle to upper class soldiers of the officer class may have remembered it in the way presented by Fussell. Fussell depends on too many literary sources from one particular class to suggest it was about the 'British experience' in the round. Anyway, arguably one of the greatest novels of the war 'Her Privates We' by Frederic Manning is hardly mentioned.

[David_Blanchard]

I would also recommend 'The Price of Pity' by Martin Stephen:

pages 230 to 237 Chapter 8 'Debunking the Myth'

'Fussell's is a very great book, and is seriously and gloriously wrong in some of the claims it makes. I feel rather like a child when it reaches the awful moment of realising its parents are not perfect. My reason for daring rather more than a slapped wrist is that Fussell's book, for all that is a masterpiece and a great destroyer of myths is now in the situation of contrbuting to some myths that surely should be laid to rest:

'In the Great War 8 million people were destroyed because two persons, the Archduke and his consort had been shot.'

Fussell finds it astonshing that a sergeant could write:

'In humble, reverent spirit I dedicate these pages to the memory of the lads who served with me in the 'Sacrifice Battery' , and who gave their lives that those behind might live.' (page 23)

Such comments can be found in their thousands in any archive of the war and they do not reflect, as Fussell seems to think, a fatous ignorance of the war or a mindless jingoism. They represent instead the love that men feel for each other in the midst of appalling hate, and as such they desreve to be respected and not patronised.'

I think that is one of the sentiments that needs to be remembered on the the eve of the 11th November, the comradeship of the men who fought. I think throughout Fussell's book there is a general tone of dismissiveness as regards the common man.

[Chris_B]

Like Fleur, the OP of this topic, I have not read Paul Fussell's book. But I have read Geoff Dyer's book "The Missing of the Somme", which is about the "Act of Rememberance", and I suspect a much simpler book than Fussell's. It was very thought provoking and as someone who is in the early stages of trying to educate themselves about the events of WW1 and their impact, I learnt a lot.

Dyer makes reference to Fussell's work and for all I know may have been heavily influenced by it. And so I was considering reading it. But when I read Gary Sheffield and other (respected) historians did'nt think it was the "best thing since slice bread" I was put off (See my earlier post).

Whatever its merits, it seems to have generated strong opinions amongst Pals.

Ultimately, I think I should read it with an open mind and then study the criticism of others before drawing my own conclusion.

I suppose I just wanted Fleur to know they may be valid counter arguments to those proposed by Fussell.

Anyway, it has generated a lively interchange and I feel some of us fairly new to WW1 really worry about what is myth and what is not.

[Dragon]

'A War Imagined: The First World War and English Culture' by Samuel Hynes ( 1990)

I second this recommendation. I found it very hard to obtain the book because it was out of print, but it was worth waiting weeks for.

Gwyn

[David_Blanchard]

Like Fleur, the OP of this topic, I have not read Paul Fussell's book. But I have read Geoff Dyer's book "The Missing of the Somme"

My favourite line in Dyer's book is when he is describing Sanctuary Wood Museum, as though Steptoe and Son had set up their own version of the Imperial War Museum in Belgium.

[Will O'Brien]

Like Fleur, the OP of this topic, I have not read Paul Fussell's book. But I have read Geoff Dyer's book "The Missing of the Somme"

My favourite line in Dyer's book is when he is describing Sanctuary Wood Museum, as though Steptoe and Son had set up their own version of the Imperial War Museum in Belgium.

Strange. I bought 'The Missing of the Somme' about 10 months ago, struggled with the style as I found it not to my taste & put it down less than half way through. Perhaps me thinks I should have another bash

[AndyHollinger]

Fussell's is a must read for anyone trying to grasp what people think about - if not the intellectual baggage carried - by most people on WWI.

Like all history, there are problems in the details - some of fact - some of emphasis - some inclusion/exclusion but if for no other reason than the immense impact this book has had, at least in America, this book should be read.

The author is somewhat of a ... ahem ... malcontent and his book about WWII is dismal to say something kind. But, for whatever reason, this book made it's mark and to some extent still rings true in the minds of readers and thinkers everywhere.