Leighfield Posted 30 November , 2003 Share Posted 30 November , 2003 Heavy Battery or Siege Battery???. Must be a daft question, but what differentiated the two??. Could one be re-designated as the other?. What was the typical complement of a Heavy/Siege Battery?? Does anyone know to what units the 122nd Hvy Bty were attached?? Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Harris Posted 4 December , 2003 Share Posted 4 December , 2003 Andy, I am led to believe that a "Heavy Bty" was equipped with 60 Pdr guns whilst a "Siege Bty" was less mobile and equipped with 6", 8" & 9.2" Howitzers, an RGA Brigade was flexible and could contain the following battery combinations, Mobile Bde - 2x60pdr Btys & 2x6" How Btys Mixed Bde - Six Btys of all natures of guns How 9.2 Bde - 3x6" How Btys & 1x9.2" How Bty How 8" Bde - 3x 6" How Btys & 1x8" How Bty 122 Heavy Bty were equipped with 60pdr Guns and formed part of the 62nd (Mixed) RGA Brigade alongside 126 Heavy Bty (60pdrs), 224 Siege Bty & 274 Siege Bty (6"Howitzers), 67 Siege Bty (8"Howitzers) & finally 76 Siege Bty (9.2"Howitzers) this unit was attached to the Third Army and commanded overall by Maj Gen A Wardrop(GOC Artillery) they saw action at Arras, 3rd Ypres, Cambrai, March Retreat, Amiens 1918, Cambrai 1918, Selles & Valenciennes. Hope this is of use, Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leighfield Posted 15 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2003 Many thanks Clive for taking the time and effort to answer my questions. Most informative. Unfortunately, It prompts me to ask the forum/yourself a few more questions. 1 - How many men (typically) would make up a Heavy battery? 2 - How many men would be required to man a 60 pounder gun? 3 - Would you know when 122nd Hvy Bty arrived in France. The way I read your text is that perhaps Arras was this units first major action. 4 - Was this Bty with 62nd Brigade for the duration of the war? 5 - Would an Artillery Brigade be associated/tasked with supporting any one particular Division, or detailed to serve as and where ordered within 3rd Army? 6 - Did the 122nd hvy Bty exist pre war?. If so, where? 7 - My Grandfathers uncle - Gunner GA Leighfield (KIA 30/09/1917) is entitled to the 1914 star ( I have his trio and plaque). He was a pre war regular (I have some photos from India around 1910), then reservist who re-joined at the outbreak of hostilities. His WW1 service records unfortunately have not survived. Would the likelihood be that he would have rejoined his pre-war unit/Bty and remained with it till his death?? 8 - Can records for pre Great War servicemen be traced?. If so, would these records be at the NA/PRO. I note the Ace of Spades on your post. Do you have an interest in 12th Eastern Division? Regards and many thanks again Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olosangus Posted 16 December , 2003 Share Posted 16 December , 2003 Andy, Just a thought but if you relative earned the 1914 star then the medal roll which is available at the PRO would normally tell you what brigade he was with. Sometimes it is also shown on the medal index card for soldiers who earned the 14 star. This is also available at the PRO and you would need it in any case to track down the reference for the medal roll. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leighfield Posted 16 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2003 Thanks Simon I've not been before, but am hoping to visit PRO early next year. Many thanks for the advice Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 16 December , 2003 Share Posted 16 December , 2003 Heavy batteries began the war as divisional assets. As mentioned, the 60 pdr (5") was the trade-mark piece. However, as more heavy batteries were commissioned, many units had to start their training with the naval 4.7" due to shortages. As the war progressed, it was recognised that greater concentrations of heavy artillery were needed. Moreover, greater centralised co-ordination was also needed for the increasingly complex pre-planned bombardments. Co-ordination might be at corps then later at army level. Heavy batteries would be linked into Heavy Artillery Groups (HAGs) for major battles. HAGs were eventually phased out in 1918. Heavy batteries would engage in counter-battery fire or in bombarding key defensive strongpoints, road junctions and other targets in the rear. Shrapnel, HE, smoke and gas were all capable of being fired from 60 pdrs. Most 60 pdrs appear to have had a six-man crew but in prolonged actions, such as the Somme or Third Ypres, this number could vary as casualties increased. In June 1916, batteries were increased from 4 to 6 guns. This was designed to increase the number of guns with minimal increases to the number of artillerymen. Siege batteries of the Royal Garrison Artillery were derived from the siege trains that trailed along behind armies. Their role had been to subdue fortifications, hence their relatively immobile very heavy artillery. Clearly, this role evolved with WW1. They provided counter-battery fire and targeting of key strongpoints, etc. 6 and 8" howitzers were mobile. Bigger calibres had to be transported in pieces and then anchored on solid foundations. Railway guns completed the line up of the heavies/super-heavies. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 17 December , 2003 Share Posted 17 December , 2003 122nd Heavy Battery went to France on 8 March 1915 with 28 Heavy Artillery Brigade (HAB) that was renumbered as 11 HAB in late March. It transfered to 9 Heavy Artillery Group (HAG) on on 6 Apr 16; to 2 HAG on 26 Jul 17; to 55 HAG on 6 Feb 17; to 9 HAG on 21 Mar 17; to 41 HAG on 14 May 17; to 73 HAG on 5 Jul 17; to 28 HAG on 8 Aug 17; to 88 HAG on 2 Sep 17 and to 2nd HAG on 1 Oct 17. On 22 Dec 17 it transferred to 62 HAB and served with it for the rest of the war, but was attached to 68 HAB from 23 Dec 17 to 15 Jan 18. Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leighfield Posted 17 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2003 Many thanks to both Dick and Robert for your posts. You guys have really whetted my appetite for getting over to the PRO and doing some research into Uncle George. Bearing in mind 122nd Hvy Bty didn't arrive in France until March 1915, my relative (awarded 1914 star) must have arrived earlier with another unit/bty. Should I be able to identify which unit/bty from the MIC, or just the brigade as per Simon's post? Sorry to keep asking so many questions. I'm still a novice in the WW1/family reseach game. It's just that I want to get the most out of my impending visit to PRO. Thanks all Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 17 December , 2003 Share Posted 17 December , 2003 My experience is that the Medal Index Card for 1914 Stars usually indicates the battery for gunners in the RGA. If you find out which battery he was in from the MIC, let me know and I will tell you the information I have on the battery. Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leighfield Posted 17 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2003 Great stuff Dick...Much appreciated Hopefully, I may drop you a line in a few weeks time. Thanks again Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leighfield Posted 17 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2003 George Leighfield...pre war. Does he look like an artilleryman/gunner. I had assumed that he was, when a pre war regular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leighfield Posted 17 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2003 oops!! Is it there now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 18 December , 2003 Share Posted 18 December , 2003 I am not an expert on uniforms so others will have to tell you what unit the uniform represents. But if he was in Rawal Pindi as the photo indicates in 1910 the only RGA unit stationed at that location at that time was 74 Company, RGA under the command of Major R P Molesworth. One other thing that I wanted to mention is that if there is no battery given on the MIC, hopefully there will be an embarkation date at the bottom of the MIC, and if you make note of that date, I have a list of embarkation dates for most, if not all, of the RGA Heavy and Siege Batteries. Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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