Guest Keg Posted 4 December , 2003 Share Posted 4 December , 2003 I am very new to this. My grandfather was in the MGC, I have his ID disc. How would I find out where he enlisted. Thank you Keg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 4 December , 2003 Share Posted 4 December , 2003 Hello keg, welcome to the forum There are one or two MGC specialists among our members, and they are sure to give you some ideas. As a start though, you should read the section called "Grandad's war" on the the parent site The Long, Long Trail. There's a link to it top left of this page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 4 December , 2003 Share Posted 4 December , 2003 Keg MGC has an old comrades group and it has a web site. They also have a guy who specializes in MGC research. Hope that's a beer keg by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 4 December , 2003 Share Posted 4 December , 2003 Hi Keg What Service Number is marked on his id disc as this will give a good idea of when he joined the MGC which is at least a start ? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keg Posted 4 December , 2003 Share Posted 4 December , 2003 Hi Keg What Service Number is marked on his id disc as this will give a good idea of when he joined the MGC which is at least a start ? Steve Hi Steve Many thanks for the quick reply. 35278 is the number. Keg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keg Posted 4 December , 2003 Share Posted 4 December , 2003 Hello keg, welcome to the forum There are one or two MGC specialists among our members, and they are sure to give you some ideas. As a start though, you should read the section called "Grandad's war" on the the parent site The Long, Long Trail. There's a link to it top left of this page. Thank you for the welcome. Two replies already, this is wonderful. Have read with interest "Grandad's War", it has given me further reseach ideas. Keg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 4 December , 2003 Share Posted 4 December , 2003 Evening Keg. 35728 is a relatively early number,for the MGC,although the numbering system during the whole war,can be very confusing. My Great-grandad,joined sometime in October/November 1916 and his number was 73313. As Paul has said there is an Old Comrades Association,that is still going as far as i am aware. Check Tom Morgans Hellfire corner Website,as there is a direct link,as far as i remember,to the MGC,OCA website. Jim Parker is the man who Paul refers to and,again,i think you can get in touch with him via a link on their site. He has years of research into the MGC behind him and for a small charge,will do research. The MGC was founded in October of 1915,by Royal Warrant,and disbanded in 1922. Over a 170,00 men served during the war with the MGC,and casualties were high. Good luck in your search. Regards. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 4 December , 2003 Share Posted 4 December , 2003 Hi Keg I have medals to a man with a 37,000 number and he enlisted in May 1916 so it is probable that your grandfather joined the MGC about April/May 1916. However, he could have had previous service in another Regiment/Corps, the only way to be sure is to have a Medal Index Card check carried out. I believe that there is a Christmas Charity MIC check up being carried out by some of the Pals, it is well worth asking them for help. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keg Posted 4 December , 2003 Share Posted 4 December , 2003 Evening Keg. 35728 is a relatively early number,for the MGC,although the numbering system during the whole war,can be very confusing. My Great-grandad,joined sometime in October/November 1916 and his number was 73313. As Paul has said there is an Old Comrades Association,that is still going as far as i am aware. Check Tom Morgans Hellfire corner Website,as there is a direct link,as far as i remember,to the MGC,OCA website. Jim Parker is the man who Paul refers to and,again,i think you can get in touch with him via a link on their site. He has years of research into the MGC behind him and for a small charge,will do research. The MGC was founded in October of 1915,by Royal Warrant,and disbanded in 1922. Over a 170,00 men served during the war with the MGC,and casualties were high. Good luck in your search. Regards. Simon. Hi Simon Thanks for the information. I will follow up your suggestions. Keg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keg Posted 5 December , 2003 Share Posted 5 December , 2003 Hi Keg I have medals to a man with a 37,000 number and he enlisted in May 1916 so it is probable that your grandfather joined the MGC about April/May 1916. However, he could have had previous service in another Regiment/Corps, the only way to be sure is to have a Medal Index Card check carried out. I believe that there is a Christmas Charity MIC check up being carried out by some of the Pals, it is well worth asking them for help. Steve Hello Steve Thank you for the info. Keg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 5 December , 2003 Share Posted 5 December , 2003 My Grandfather served in the Machine Gun Corps as well. However, he started life as a rifleman. After he was wounded at Flers, he volunteered to become a machine gunner because there would be 6 weeks extra training before he had to return to the front. Thus, the ID number may be no clue to date of entering the MGC. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plant-pilot Posted 5 December , 2003 Share Posted 5 December , 2003 My Grandfather, 37765 Sgt AEJ Crowhurst MM joined the RHA in 1907 where he remained until he was transfered to the Machine Gun Corps and to the Tank Corps. Is there any way of finding out when he was transfered, to which unit and for how long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lawton Posted 5 December , 2003 Share Posted 5 December , 2003 Plant-Pilot, My grandfather's MGC number was 37665 and his brother's was 37666 both enlisted in the Bedfordshire Regiment on 27 November 1915. I don't know when they transfered to the MGC but it couldn't have been much earlier then your grandfather as the difference between their numbers is only 100. Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plant-pilot Posted 5 December , 2003 Share Posted 5 December , 2003 Not too sure how the numbers worked back then as 37765 was his number long before he was transfered into the MGC. He joined in 1907 and had the number from then. It is also the same number that is on his 'Serving Member' card of the RHA Old Comrades. When I transfered from R. Sigs to the RE my regt number remained the same, I was assuming it was the same then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 5 December , 2003 Share Posted 5 December , 2003 I have been told MGC started #s at 3000 but have been told that's wrong so not sure. It started October 14, 1915. James Henry Hartley whos buried here in Kentucky was 3389, his brother was 3390. He was formerly Kings Liverpool Regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lawton Posted 5 December , 2003 Share Posted 5 December , 2003 Plant-Pilot, My grandfather's number in the Beds was 23635 and his brother's was 23636 they got the new numbers when they transferred. Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plant-pilot Posted 5 December , 2003 Share Posted 5 December , 2003 It does seem a bit confusing. I only have the one regimental number for him, even though he was regular RHA, transfered to the MGC and then to the Tank Corps where he served until the beginning of the 30's. I would assume that there was a set metod, either re-number or retain number..... or may be there wasn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 5 December , 2003 Share Posted 5 December , 2003 Numbers are confusing but there are people who can explain them better than I can - I'd love to know for example how one judges dates of joining a unit by his number. Anyhow, I'd really like to know what names and individual MG Companies (or 1918 Bns) all your ancestors were. I'm particularly interested in 123rd Coy, I have quite a few names without numbers - it has been easier to find info on men who died ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Solomon Posted 6 December , 2003 Share Posted 6 December , 2003 My Grandfather was 114504 Lcpl Moss Solomons MM. I have contacted Jim Parker to find more inf about him -His original unit -His service history -How he won his MM Jim was not able to give me much more than I originally knew. I think he may have originally joined The Kings Royal Rifles Hi MM was announced in The London gazette on 11th March 1919, but his medal record doesn't mention the MM. Can anybody help me to find any other sources of info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 6 December , 2003 Share Posted 6 December , 2003 It does seem a bit confusing. I only have the one regimental number for him, even though he was regular RHA, transfered to the MGC and then to the Tank Corps where he served until the beginning of the 30's. I would assume that there was a set metod, either re-number or retain number..... or may be there wasn't? During WW1 soldiers were issued with a regimental number. If they were posted to another unit they got a new number. Details of all numbers a soldier had ought to be on their medal index card. I would think that soldiers were also sometimes re-numbered when moved between battalions of the same regiment. Otherwise all of those prefix letters used by certain units would have rapidly become meaningless. Also, TA soldiers were given new numbers c 1917. As you can imagine this made it very difficult for the army then, or anyone else today, to keep track of an individual soldier with a common name. As a result of this problem ARMY numbers were introduced in 1920, and lasted until WW2. The Army number system was based on "blocks" of numbers being issued to a unit, and a soldier keeping their one number for the whole of his service. Anyone who had a list of the "blocks" eg Military Police or Germans, could tell which regiment a soldier had first joined. This might, or might not, be the unit he was serving with at the time of capture. For example, in WW2, my fathers number was 6854188. This shows that he enlisted in the KRRC, and he kept that number until demob' in 1946. However, by 1946 he had then been in the Middlesex Regiment for a number of years. This "block" system has it's uses when looking at CWGC details for WW2. You can tell right away which regiment that Commando or Paratrooper probably came from. You can also tell if a unit had been rapidly made up to strength following casualties. About 1942 the army began to issue "General Service" numbers 8 figure number starting with 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 6 December , 2003 Share Posted 6 December , 2003 Knowing Jim well, he would admit that calculating previous service from MGC numbers - in the absence of the MIC - is not an exact science. It is certainly possible to extrapolate in a number of cases - but it is always a 'best guess' rather than a definitive answer. Yes, there were block issues to drafts, but I always take it with a slight air of agnosticism that 'he MUST have joined the MGC on xx date from xx regiment'. Collating the H&A list shows several soldiers with the same 'regimental' number from previous service (see Beppo's answer regarding ARMY numbers above; MGC men were renumbered 78***** post war) And Phil; do not be too harsh on Jim. This is my entry from my MGC database (which I think Jim sent on to you?) 114504 SOLOMONS M L/CPL MM 11/02/1919 2121 17 BN STEPNEY GREEN, E If his service papers did not survive, you will get little info on previous service save the minimum on the medal index card. (Jim does NOT have every MGC man's MIC to hand). Secondly, no MM citations survive for WW1. The only hopes for finding out the nature of the deed are: reference in war diaries (not common)reference in histories (of which there is not one of the MGC... working on it) and possibly reference in local newspapers from place of residence. As I've said in this forum before, sometimes even the recipient didn't know. He thinks it could have been for... but then again, could have been... Not aware that we followed US practice and read out citations 'in the field'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 6 December , 2003 Share Posted 6 December , 2003 About 1942 the army began to issue "General Service" numbers 8 figure number starting with 14. Although, (as is usually the case) nothing is that simple! 8 digit numbers beginning with "14" were allocated to the "Lowland Regiment", the "Highland Regiment" and the "General Service Corps" (also with the number 14000000 being in the Pioneer Corps) back in 1939. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Solomon Posted 10 December , 2003 Share Posted 10 December , 2003 Knowing Jim well, he would admit that calculating previous service from MGC numbers - in the absence of the MIC - is not an exact science. It is certainly possible to extrapolate in a number of cases - but it is always a 'best guess' rather than a definitive answer. Yes, there were block issues to drafts, but I always take it with a slight air of agnosticism that 'he MUST have joined the MGC on xx date from xx regiment'. Collating the H&A list shows several soldiers with the same 'regimental' number from previous service (see Beppo's answer regarding ARMY numbers above; MGC men were renumbered 78***** post war) And Phil; do not be too harsh on Jim. This is my entry from my MGC database (which I think Jim sent on to you?) 114504 SOLOMONS M L/CPL MM 11/02/1919 2121 17 BN STEPNEY GREEN, E If his service papers did not survive, you will get little info on previous service save the minimum on the medal index card. (Jim does NOT have every MGC man's MIC to hand). Secondly, no MM citations survive for WW1. The only hopes for finding out the nature of the deed are: reference in war diaries (not common)reference in histories (of which there is not one of the MGC... working on it) and possibly reference in local newspapers from place of residence. As I've said in this forum before, sometimes even the recipient didn't know. He thinks it could have been for... but then again, could have been... Not aware that we followed US practice and read out citations 'in the field'. Phil, My apologies if I appeared harsh on Jim. It was inintentional. I was merely showing disappointment that I had not been able to get much info beyond the entry that I had found in the London Gazette. Even his medal card didn't refer to previous regiments or even to his MM! Phil Solomon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lawton Posted 10 December , 2003 Share Posted 10 December , 2003 Phil, As far as I know the MIC only shows the regiments a soldier saw overseas service with, it is possible your grandfather enlisted in a different regiment bet transferred being sent overseas. The MIC's for my grandfather and his brother only show the MGC and thier service records didn't survive. I do have my grandfather's Army Small Book showing that he enlisted in the Bedfordshire Regiment along with a pictures of them both wearing Bed's cap badges. The entry in SDITGW for my grandfather's brother also has an additional note showing he was in the Bed's, without these few extra bits I would never have known that they had been in another regiment . Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 10 December , 2003 Share Posted 10 December , 2003 I've found some general details of a local man from Fremantle, Western Australia who served in the MGC. His service number is 17521 & name was Pte W.T.Lyons. From what I've read on this thread so far I gather it's hard to tell from this number when he enlisted into the MGC? Unfortunately that is all the information I have, though I've been told that some Australians who served in the British forces had their service records sent out here before WW2, so hopefully that's the case for this chap. I'm glad that in the AIF in most cases the men kept the first number they were issued with. Each battalion started at No.1. If they were transferred to a different unit and a man there already had that service number, the soldier transferring in would put an 'a' on the end of his number. Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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