CROONAERT Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 I have the MM to a soldier whose award of the medal appeared in the London (and Edinburgh) Gazette in December 1916. Looking through his battalion war diary, he is mentioned as "recieving" (in France) the MM in early October 1916 for an action in September 1916. He was KIA in June 1917. My questions (that I've been wondering about now for some time) are: "Would he have received the actual medal in October 1916, or just the ribbon?" "Who would have awarded him the medal/ribbon?" and "If he only received the ribbon in October 1916, would he have actually possessed the actual medal that I now have, or would it have been forwarded on to his father (his only living relative by this time)sometime after (or even before) his death in June 1917?" - Basically, I'm trying to establish wether or not he had actually held this particular medal in his own hands before he was killed (as far as I can establish, he had no "home leave" between his award and his death). Thanks, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 Dave, I have come across War Diary entries that refer to so and so being presented with a ribbon (usually at a parade of the Brigade, handed out by Divisional CO) often about a month after the action / event for which it was awarded. The LG entries are a couple of months or so later (often v much later). I can't answer whether your man actually received his MM. but I can give you the example of my grandfather who won the MC 15.9.16, then a ref to ratification by Corps, then presented with the ribbon at a Bde parade 20.10.16 (by Divl General) appeared in LG Nov 1916 and finally presented with medal at Buck Pal in ?March/April 1917 (I don't have the exact dates in front of me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 Hi Dave, I'm no expert here but I'll say from going through some CEF war diaries all gallantry awards are listed at the end of the month. There is no mention I can recall where someone is actually issued their award on a specific day so I would say just the ribbon would be issued in the field. Also the condition of most gallantry awards I've seen would lead me to believe they were not issued in the field. Again I'm no expert and I'm sure if I go back and check I'll find my memory defective yet again. Take care, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 It was seemingly very rare for soldiers to be given the actual medal while the war was on, although I know of some examples were soldiers were sent home to receive awards like the MM (eg at the Palace). 'Medal Parades' in France were to present ribbons and certificates (Divisional Cards etc), but not the medals themselves. However, there were no doubt exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 9 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 9 December , 2003 Thanks I have a very strong feeling that he only received the ribbon and never actually saw the medal (I think reciept of the ribbon was the usual first step?). What was throwing me was that the diary actually states that he, along with another soldier were "awarded Military Medals" (Oct.9th 1916). The action that he was in where he earned the award was September 27th 1916. It strikes me as a very short period of time to award an actual medal. I tend to lean towards the idea that something similar happened to him as happened to Julian's Grandfather and his MC, only in my case, the soldier didn't live to receive it. Cheers, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 Dave I think it's just the use of language in the Diary. "Awarded" meaning "awarded", not "received". I've recently been reading a few of the on-line Canadian Diairies and the usual wording seems to be "Pte Bloggs awarded MM for his actions on ....". The timescale you give seems consistent with your man's battalion commander recommending him, a decision to award being made further up the chain of command and then news being received back in the Bn. Incidentally, what level of command would approve the award? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff. Hobson Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 I have seen copies of several letters written home by Soldiers saying that they had been recommended for an award which were evidently just after the action, would the soldiers in question have been told of the specific medal. In one instance a copy of a diary I have the soldier has written on the day of the action, got the D. C. M. but of course this could have been added at a later time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 Dave My grandfather's award of the MM was approved by GOC-in-C Italian Expeditionary Force just a fortnight after the event, along with several others. Another batch seem to have been approved the next day. Both sets of awards were recorded in the battalion war diary on the same day. It would seem that approval by the GOC-in-C for awards at least up to DSO was the "point of no return", and after his approval they were cast in stone. It subsequently took some time for the awarded to be notified in the London Gazette (3 and a half months). Although the diary is quite detailed at this period, it does not mention the award of ribbons or medals in this instance. It does mention a joint anglo-french parade where CdGs were given to British personnel while MCs and MMs were awarded to French personnel a month after the event. And it mentions a raid on Austrian lines where ribbons for awards were presented just three days after the event, although the war diary quotes an authority dated a day later than the presentation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 I have an MM group in my collection to a Canadian machine gunner, who was also awarded his MM for actions in September 1916 at the Somme. He was later killed at Paschendale in October 1917. In the course of my research I uncovered a great number of related newspaper articles attributed to this man from his local home town newspaper in Ontario. (In fact they published almost a dozen of his letters home, as well as many other very graphic and telling articles about his life at the front). One of the articles talks about how he had sent his medal home to his mother, where it is 'now' on display at a local village store, presented for display in the front window for all the townspeople to see. So in this case the soldier had actually known of and handled his medal. I am at work at the moment, so not able to leap through his file, but if memory serves me correctly he was awarded his medal in early 1917 in a regimental parade. Hope that helps (Sjt. Arthur Minion Christian MM 15th Coy. CMGB) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 Dave I have my Grandfathers records for his Military Medal,where he request,s his medal from the infantry records office of his Regiment over 18months after winning it. Also have photo of him wearing the ribbon taking 3mths after the action he won the medal, hope this is of some help. Is it common that you had to send a written request for medals. Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 9 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2004 I found a little more information about this soldier yesterday. According to his newspaper obituary (30 June 1917) he was killed in action "within weeks of recieving the Military Medal". Seeing as he was gazzetted in Dec. 1916, this reads (to me) like he got the actual medal in April/May 1917. I know that newspaper reports can be a little misleading or fanciful at times, but what do you think? Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 9 January , 2004 Share Posted 9 January , 2004 Dave I'm sticking with my original view. For example, chap gets told he is being awarded MM; writes home to family telling them; no further word from him until he gets killed "within weeks of .....". Newspaper relies on info from family which says, he got MM a few before he was killed. Paper prints in good faith a better story of yet another of our brave lads killed. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger Posted 9 January , 2004 Share Posted 9 January , 2004 Reading the replies are you saying that the person had to claim his medals, or the family had to if the person died. If this is the case and the medals were not claimed are they in a vault or at the Regiment HQ or never issued. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 9 January , 2004 Share Posted 9 January , 2004 My partner's paternal Grandfather was awarded the DCM in the LG of 8 Jan 1915 for an action on 31 Oct 1914 (CSM, 2/KRRC then; commissioned in the field Dec 14, wounded and repatriated Jan 15, later 5/KRRC then MGC). Her maternal grandfather, RE Signal Service, att to a South African siege battery, was awarded the MM in 1917 for repairing wires under fire at night. His papers survive in the burnt records series, and in there (durned hard to read due to the 'negative' effect of microfilming) is the official receipt for the medal - dated 1924. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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