Neil Clark Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 I came across an old map yesterday showing what appears to be a RNAS Marine Aerodrome near the village of Grain. Can anyone provide more information about this old base and tell me what exactly went on there when it was open ? I have uploaded the map together with an image I took from Google Earth. Thanking you all in anticipation... Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 This from Sturtivant and Page “Royal Navy Aircraft … 1911-1919” _ UK Naval Air Stations: GRAIN & PORT VICTORIA, Kent – experimental station opened 3.12.12. Nore War Flt formed 24/4/16. Experimental Flt formed 4.16, became Gunnery Experimental 5/1/15. Seaplane design Flt formed 5.2.16. Design Flt ex-Eastchurch 16.3.17, became Marine Aircaft Experimental Station 5.18, later Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment. Tye Test Dept ex-Southampton 4.4.17, became Type Test Flt. Port Victoria Aeroplane Repair Station, became Experimental Constructive Dept 1.12.17. Experimental Armament Dept by 1.2.17. Nore Patrol Flt 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 My understanding, which means I read it somewhere in a local history book, was that whilst Eastchurch on Sheppey was the Naval aeroplane station (from where a young school lad called McCudden first watched aircraft and formulated his desire to fly), Grain was the location of a Naval airship base. I think I have seen pictures of hangars there that could have only been for airships too. Hoping I am not wrong ... Jon S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kebabking Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 http://www.borstal.org.uk/history/shorts.shtml Shots here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 A number of interesting aircraft were developed here none of which (with one exceprtion) got past the prototype stage. Of special interest would be the Port Victoria Kitten and the Grain Kitten both single seat anti Zeppelin fighters designed to be launched from destroyers. Armed with a single Lewis (over wing) these tiny biplanes were powered. with an ABC Gnat 2 cylinder engine of 35 hp. They had a good performance for the low power (about 98 mph) and a climb rate that would have made it possible for them to get within striking range of a Zeppelin. Their downfall was their tiny cockpit (requiring undersized pilots) and the ABC engine which like all ABC engines was completely unreliable.. Other aircraft included the Port Victoria PB7 a single seat sea plane fighter (also intended for anti Zeppelin work). The Grain Griffon a two seat recce and strike aircraft did see limited service in the Russian campaigns in 1919. Other experimental work included the development of ditching devices, early work on arrester gear and various semi explosive trials with Davis recoiless guns. It was said that staff working with the Davis guns were recognisable by their complete lack of eyebrows eye lashes etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 I shoud have added that Port Victoria worked hand in hand with Eastchurch - also I think on the Isle of Grain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 I shoud have added that Port Victoria worked hand in hand with Eastchurch - also I think on the Isle of Grain Eastchurch was on nearby Isle of Sheppey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kebabking Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 From my railway Buff days I recall that Port Victoria was built as a rival to Dover for the cross channel traffic. It never caught on and fell into decline despite having been used by Queen Vic It was never much more than a pier hotel and railway station The lines on the Isle of Grain were shut by Beeching except the line to Port Victoria which was/?is still open for Oil tanker traffic To me the google map looks wrong ( who am i to question you) and PV should be further SW As i recall the line was slightly diverted to service the Oil terminal but not enough to be missing from the map Have sold all railway books so cant check but have seen a number of photos (fat lot of good that is KK) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 My understanding, which means I read it somewhere in a local history book, was that whilst Eastchurch on Sheppey was the Naval aeroplane station (from where a young school lad called McCudden first watched aircraft and formulated his desire to fly), Grain was the location of a Naval airship base. I think I have seen pictures of hangars there that could have only been for airships too. Hoping I am not wrong ... Jon S Apologies - Grain (I assume Port Victoria) was an experimental seaplane station. Neighbouring Kingsnorth was the site of an airship factory. Both were Naval establishments although i also believe the Royal Engineers Air Bttn and/or Balloon School also conducted some of their early work on the Grain peninsula (although their primary location was at Farnborough). Interestingly, pre-war, the Kaiser used Port Victoria as his usual entry into England - presumably by yacht and then the Royal train to London. Regards, Jon S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kebabking Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/station...ria/index.shtml Port Victoria Station with link to map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickdavis Posted 30 April , 2007 Share Posted 30 April , 2007 GRAIN and PORT VICTORIA (Isle of Grain) ¼ mile from Port Victoria railway station 172/178 : (51) TQ 889744 (Grain seaplane station), 879741 (Port Victoria Depot), 885745 (aerodrome) : 90 acres combined site : 900 x 500 yards aerodrome : just below mean sea level. Seaplane Station for the defence of the Thames Estuary and seaplane testing RNAS/RAF 31.12.1912 –continued in service : Aerodrome for experimental work RNAS/RAF 1914 – continued in service : Port Victoria depot for testing, repair and construction work RNAS/RAF 1915 – continued in service : The complex eventually combined to form the Marine Experimental Aircraft Depot : Listed as unavailable for civilian use 22.1.1920. Six seaplane sheds and four aeroplane sheds, 180 x 60 feet. Seaplane War Flight 12.1912 from formed : 1917 to disbanded into SP & Armament Experimental Station Aircraft Repair Depot 1915 formed : 1917 disbanded into SP & Armament Experimental Station Seaplane Testing Flight 1915 formed : 1917 disbanded into SP & Armament Experimental Station Armament Experimental Section 1915 formed : 1917 disbanded into SP & Armament Experimental Station SP & Armament Experimental Station 1917 formed from existing sections : 4.1918 disbanded into Marine Aircraft Experimental Depot Marine Aircraft Experimental Depot 4.1918 formed : 3.1920 re-des Marine Aircraft Experimental Eastablishment MAEE 3.1920 formed ex MAED : 17.3.1924 Felixstowe Commander in Chief, The Nore, RNAS : Controller, Technical Department, Ministry of Munitions 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 1 May , 2007 Author Share Posted 1 May , 2007 Thanks for all that superb info and the links lads. I shall arrange a visit to the site soon... Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 8 May , 2007 Share Posted 8 May , 2007 From my railway Buff days I recall that Port Victoria was built as a rival to Dover for the cross channel traffic. It never caught on and fell into decline despite having been used by Queen Vic It was never much more than a pier hotel and railway station The lines on the Isle of Grain were shut by Beeching except the line to Port Victoria which was/?is still open for Oil tanker traffic To me the google map looks wrong ( who am i to question you) and PV should be further SW As i recall the line was slightly diverted to service the Oil terminal but not enough to be missing from the map Have sold all railway books so cant check but have seen a number of photos (fat lot of good that is KK) KK I think you are mostly correct, but I remember that the idea was to rival Southampton with a deep water terminal for transatlantic ships? The line still exists as you mention, minus various halts and stations such as High Halstow and Sharnal Street. It was once connected to the naval tramway which ran down to the Upnor area and used for transporting munitions. The course of that track still vaguely visible, as the lane to High Halstow rises over what was once a bridge over the tramway. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kebabking Posted 8 May , 2007 Share Posted 8 May , 2007 Cheers Ian You seem quite familiar with the terrain. Is that Google earth map right. ?If not can u put up correct map. I know not how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 8 May , 2007 Share Posted 8 May , 2007 KK, I worked out of a house at High Halstow for about 8-9 years, and (falling on my head as a baby) am also interested in trains! Had an article in a railway mag about the line and Port Victoria. The station survived after the port project flopped - serving holiday-makers at a nearby holiday site. I think the google Earth pic is about right, judging from the map of the coastline, not from my own knowledge. I kept away from that end of Grain - too many container lorries with lunatic drivers, one hand on the wheel, another on the mobile phone... quite a few fatal accidents over the years. Dual carriage way finally arrived, but I had moved on by then. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kebabking Posted 8 May , 2007 Share Posted 8 May , 2007 KK, I worked out of a house at High Halstow for about 8-9 years, and (falling on my head as a baby) am also interested in trains! Had an article in a railway mag about the line and Port Victoria. The station survived after the port project flopped - serving holiday-makers at a nearby holiday site. I think the google Earth pic is about right, judging from the map of the coastline, not from my own knowledge. I kept away from that end of Grain - too many container lorries with lunatic drivers, one hand on the wheel, another on the mobile phone... quite a few fatal accidents over the years. Dual carriage way finally arrived, but I had moved on by then. Ian Ian Did u try the link higher up www.subbrit Amazing railway site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 8 May , 2007 Share Posted 8 May , 2007 Ian Did u try the link higher up www.subbrit Amazing railway site Thanks for that. High Halstow was expanded with housing for the BP terminal workers and more up-market dwellings for the managers. Cheers Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 8 May , 2007 Share Posted 8 May , 2007 The Google image is right and shows PV in (?) the Grain Power Station enclosure which like Kingsnorth nearby is how they came to be built there ie government land. The railway runs to the nearby dock and is not visible on this shot. High Halstow pub serves a decent pint. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robindad Posted 4 September , 2008 Share Posted 4 September , 2008 Hello all New to this list .. We have a photo of Isle of Grain RNAS station in about 1916. Shows line up of vehicles and drivers .. grand father C E Hird is one of them Is anyone interested and what is known about the ground transport side of their activity? Robin and Margaret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 4 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 September , 2008 Robindad, YES YES YES! I'm the original poster. I can confirm that the Google Map is CORRECT too. Here is a closer look, you will see that Port Victoria was built inside a man made cutting. My email is - clarkneil(a)hotmail.co.uk I look forward to seeing it... All the very best Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 4 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 September , 2008 If you look at the map on the first post you will clearly see a railway line running directly to the port and a cutting off which went to the RNAS Sea Plane Station. This railway line is still in use and the junction where the cutting was constructed clearly still visable here. The Sea Plane Station was located to the right of this photo a distance of about 200 yards - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina Bilbe Posted 13 August , 2009 Share Posted 13 August , 2009 I came across an old map yesterday showing what appears to be a RNAS Marine Aerodrome near the village of Grain. Does your map also show RNAS Kingsnorth or is it only that small area you copied here? My Grandfather was based at Kingsnorth and I'm trying to find out more. If your map extends that far it would be of great help to me. Tina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 13 August , 2009 Share Posted 13 August , 2009 Tina, I recommend that you start a thread asking for details about RNAS Kingsnorth. There are mapping projects for all WWI airfields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina Bilbe Posted 11 November , 2013 Share Posted 11 November , 2013 There is a good, first hand, description of life on this station in and unpublished book "The Innocent Erk" which is in the archive at the RAF Museum, Hendon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now