Aussies at Blackboy camp WA, Pre war ,post War ?

[Guest nobelius]

Proving that these men sailed with the 11th Battalion does not answer the specific pre war, post war question.

In many cases almost complete units of pre-war Militia joined the AIF together. So the group may have done pre war training at Blackboy, and would have used their Militia uniforms after enlisting. The embarkation rolls should show any Militia experience. Another clue would be their home address as most CMF units were quite localised.

Raw recruits at Blackboy are more usually pictured in the white floppy hats, and new chum pictures tend to be of awkward self conshus, holiday camp groupings. There's no definite proof, but these men have the air of belonging to the group.

No definite clue from their tent or the background, but the single tent in the background, and the impression of space might suggest a less chaotic camp than would have existed between September & November 1914.

No bet is certain, but I'll take the prewar odds. No-one likes a smart... but post war it is not!

I T are probably the initials of the man sending home the picture. The recipient would recognise the sender, so no need to spell it out.

[frev]

Mo – headed off to the land of nod last night – then hit me over the head with a wet mop – it came to me – “Game to the Last” (the 11th Bn at Gallipoli) – I have a copy– so at 1am this morning I was up & having a bit of a look.

Anyway, turns out (at least some of) these men were ‘Tent’ mates at Blackboy Hill.

P.8:

“The men lived under canvas at Black Boy Hill – 14 to 16 to a tent. The occupants of a tent ate, slept and, as members of the same section, served together – a man’s tent mates therefore became a very large part of his life. Other members of Medcalf’s section were:

* Alvie Clifton, ‘tall, strong, suave, unperturbed, and selfless to a fault’

* ‘Dick’ Pleydell, actually Arthur Deacon Pleydell, a man who saw the sporting side of any situation, was ‘dry as a summer well’ and ‘true as steel’

* Fred Albrecht, ‘as much at home in a Cario bazaar’ as a ‘shell-swept battlefield or a golfcourse’.

All members of the tent were single except one – or at least, to the best of each other’s knowledge. It appears one of the older men had not only claimed he was younger than he was in order to enlist, but had stated he was single when he was in fact married. Twenty-year-old Edward Donald Lindsey was the only one who confessed to being married; he became the one the section turned to for the latest information in the camp.”

At Gallipoli:

28th April 1915

“At the assembly point, some men were already asleep; others were quietly exchanging stories, trying to trace missing friends or ‘warming water in mess tins over a few sticks’. Medcalf and Kite approached to find two of their section, Lindsey and Pleydell, making beef tea. The two called them over and shook hands warmly, forced the tea on them, then began to brew more for themselves, explaining to the new arrivals that they had heard ‘you were both knocked’.

About half their section had arrived thus far. Everyone was asking everyone else of the whereabouts, fate, and state of health of comrades and friends. Harvey ‘was shot in the left arm and has been sent off to one of the ships’. Fred Albrecht emerged from washing in the sea, and ‘Baby’ Harrison from sleeping beneath an oilsheet. James George had been shot in the arm, Joe Bunning in the wrist. Thomas and Joyce soon arrived, ‘looking very tattered and war worn’. Nobody had seen Alvie Clifton since 10 o’clock on Sunday morning – the general opinion was that he must have been bowled over early in the piece.

…………………………………….

Medcalf and Albrecht joined forces and dug a possie in the side of Victoria Gully. They made some tea before dark, and ‘well satisfied with the change from the previous three nights’, they slept.”

Still haven’t come across an I.T.

Still reading.

Cheers, Frev

[frev]

Here's another photo of some of these men in Egypt:

[Guest nobelius]

ok. It was not pre-war either.

All joined B company, later amalgamated with A co, and none had militia experience.

Can't see any I T in B Co either.

[Andrew P]

Just had a quick look at the embarkation rolls and found the majority of them in the original B Company of the 11th Battalion. Once in Egypt however the eight company's A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H were made into 4 companies and I think the original A&B formed A Company.

[Andrew P]

Mo

From your first photo circa 1914 It would be amazing to think that all these men survived the war. None of them are listed in the AWM Roll of Honour.

Cheers

Andrew

[Andrew P]

Here's another photo of some of these men in Egypt:

From the 2nd photo

Harry Parry died on the 28th June 1915 and is buried at Shell Green;

Charlton Hogarth Prockter died on August 6th 1915 and is buried at Shell Green;

James Francis Kite died in 1917 and is buried in Fremantle Cemetery;

Joshua James Joyce was killed 9th July 1915 and is in Lone Pine Cemetery

Both Parry & Prockter had been commissioned before their deaths.

[frev]

Just had a quick look at the embarkation rolls and found the majority of them in the original B Company of the 11th Battalion. Once in Egypt however the eight company's A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H were made into 4 companies and I think the original A&B formed A Company.

Drew - I was just checking this myself - yep, A & B did form the new A.

[frev]

I hope James Hurst doesn't mind me sharing his book around - it's really quite a good read - I can see I'm going to have to put it to the top of my pile & read it properly soon!

Anyway, some more of the story on some of the above mentioned men:

P.57

Gallipoli 1915:

“On the morning of 3 May, George Medcalf, Alvie Clifton, Fred Albrecht and ‘Dick’ Pleydell were enlarging a sap head on Bolton’s Ridge to establish a machine gun post. As they stopped for lunch of Maconochies rations, Sergeant Pugsley came along with his inevitable notebook and, in a noncommittal tone, asked for volunteers to attack the fort at Gaba Tepe.

‘Who is in charge and who is going?’ someone asked. Pugsley named the officers and added, ‘What the orders are of course I don’t know’. Medcalf looked at the ground and took a great interest in the wall of the trench. ……………………………….

Meanwhile, his honour watched and awaited his decision. He glanced at Clifton. Perhaps the AIF was still too young to have heard the soldier’s adage ‘never volunteer for anything’, but Clifton finally spoke up – ‘Put my name down.’ The ice broken, the other three followed suit, then returned to their lunch, ………………………..”

[Guest nobelius]

Looking at the I.T again - it looks more like an arrow pointing both ways just before the letter T

Susan.

The "T" is not the same as in Thomas. Looks more like a C that has been overwritten. Have no clues as to the first hieroglyphic, still reckon it's shorthand for the postcard sender, and chances are he is in the second picture too.

For family raesons, I would like to settle for Whitfield. But as a betting man would plump for Proctor. He has been identified in the 2nd pic, roughly same build. Depending on when he got his stripe, the IT ID could be related to Lance Corporal and he had not yet got to terms with using it, or it could be a C for Charlton. Only 1 man is wearing stripes in first picture, although another is identified as Sergeant. Incidently, the Sergeant, Corporal, and Lance Corporal would form the centrepiece of the first picture if IT was Proctor.

[grantmal]

Hi All,

I’m not sure Blackboy Hill was used by the militia. When the first AIF volunteers arrived on August 17th, 1914, they had to put up their own tents.

Frank Kennedy (C Section, 3rd Field Ambulance) went to school with some of the boys in the photo – I have the info here somewhere, might have been Scotch College – and mentions them in his diary:

2.11.14: Left Gage Roads 4-30 am, up at 6 o’clock went on deck saw the last of Australia and Rottnest Island accompanied by Jap Man’O’War. Pioneer & Ascanius heading towards W of Australia, smooth sea sunny day with Joe Bunning and Maguire night time played draughts till lights out.

24.5.15: Up at 6-30, all squads went up to collect dead. Not wanted, slept morning, rain. 2-30 went up to 11th trenches, saw Clifton, Parry & Procter. Swum, went up to collect stretchers, saw Deakin.

28.6.15: Hot day, made own breakfast. Heavy firing on the right, Hedra Parry was killed

12.9.15: Missed parade, up gully all day. Visited 7th LH & 11th trenches, saw Howe, heard Procter killed and Clifton wounded (1 eye out). Quiet day, listened to church service.

The name “Hedra” Parry has always confused me – I presumed it was Harold Leslie Parry, but possibly an old school nickname?

Good on you,

Grant

[Guest nobelius]

For what its worth Proctor was a Lance Corp in B Co prior to embarkation. His family were from Surrey which would shorten the odds of him sending the first postcard to that part of the world.

Have just noted that the first postcard has been mirror imaged in the later , annotated version. The Corporal is the in the spot designated Sergeant, but our man is still it.

On reflection, I am prepared to bet that the 'middleman' is Proctor.

The notation could be a C for Charlton. It has been printed on the centre line of the postcard, and the undeciphered mark could simply be an arrow or other symbol to draw attention to himself at the centre of his group.

[Raster Scanning]

aussiechris said:

Hi Phil,

Blackboy Hill is just down the road from us. It is in the grounds of a local primary school, well cared for and appreciated. There is a large pine tree, connected to Lone Pine Gallipoli, and quite a focal point now for its Anzac day dawn service. I am sure someone could tell you exactly where they did field training etc, but it is quite easy to imagine them all over the hill.

Cheers

Shirley

This thread contains a picture of the pine tree.

 

 

[Andrew P]

I hope James Hurst doesn't mind me sharing his book around - it's really quite a good read - I can see I'm going to have to put it to the top of my pile & read it properly soon!

Anyway, some more of the story on some of the above mentioned men:

It's definately worth a good read Frev. Very impressive history on the 11th Battalion at Gallipoli.

Cheers

Andrew

[Guest nobelius]

Mo

How did you KNOW that it was Blackboy Hill?

Were there any associated leads?

Vern

[ShirlD]

28.6.15: Hot day, made own breakfast. Heavy firing on the right, Hedra Parry was killed

12.9.15: Missed parade, up gully all day. Visited 7th LH & 11th trenches, saw Howe, heard Procter killed and Clifton wounded (1 eye out). Quiet day, listened to church service.

The name “Hedra” Parry has always confused me – I presumed it was Harold Leslie Parry, but possibly an old school nickname?

Good on you,

Grant

Hi Grant,

I've just started on my research into the Guildford Grammar boys, and to my delight I can help you!

Arthur Leslie Parry, who was at the school from 1902-1914, served under the alias Harold Leslie Parry, and I have him listed as 2nd Lt. 11th Battalion kia 28.16.1915. (He was in the 1stX1 Cricket team and 1stXV111 Footy in 1904)

For Charlton Hogart Proctor, he was also an old boy and was at the school from 1903 - 1905.

Would it be possible for you to send me a scan of that picture in the book Andrew?

Cheers

Shirley

[Guest nobelius]

For the co-incidences file

there was a C Proctor KIA 2 May 1915 on Gallipoli.

seems a little strange that Charlton Proctor's father NOK would be in Lingfield Surrey if the lad had been in WA prior to 1903.

[ShirlD]

Having spent the last hour sorting out my school list, personal list and AWM, Charlton is Charlton Hogarth Prockter 11th Battalion buried at Shell Green, and the other is Charles Howard Proctor 2nd Battalion who is commemorated at Lone Pine. Think I have it straight !

Cheers Shirley

[Guest nobelius]

I go along with that! I only mention Charles, as the picture surfaced on his 92nd anniversary. I checked the CWGC under Proctor being unaware of the Prokter transcription error.

I also reckon the un-named sender of the postcard is Charlton, and that he sent it to his family in Lingfield Surrey.

Cheers

Vern

OK I give up!

Under what name is Charlton a enrolled, b, commemorated by CWGC???

[montbrehain]

I will go back over all your posts and make a full answer to them soon , and thanks very much for all your most welcome help. As i said in my last post I spent a good while reading ALL their service records. (Except IT which I have no doubt will be found ) Sadly not all survived. John Alexander Gollan died of a Gunshot wound and is buried in Alexandria Egypt. As Frev says he had transferred to the 10th Regt , 3rd Light Horse. He was wounded on the 7th of August !!! From this I would bet a pound to a penny that the Action he was wounded in was the "charge at the Nek". (bit presumptuous, I know . But right regiment and right place on the right day) Others in the photo were wounded , some severely But I believe JA Gollan to be the only one to have been KIA. "MO"

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[montbrehain]

Mo

How did you KNOW that it was Blackboy Hill?

Were there any associated leads?

Vern

Vern , Thanks for your input. If you look close at the original post , you will see a photographer's studio stamp. It says MIDLAND JUNCTION STUDIO . Thats how I knew it was Blackboy (never having been to WA !!!) "MO"

[montbrehain]

Here is the unnamed soldier in the middle of the photo "MO"(wow this forum has got so much better for posting pics )

[susanhemmings]

This is becoming a fascinating read. The work and effort that has gone into identifying these chaps is just another reminder that they (like all who fought) will never be forgotten.

Great stuff from all of you.

and thank you (from me) for sharing and caring.

susan.

[ShirlD]

Hi Mo,

Just thinking, could we scan the photo in the book, and high resolution bring it up like you have done, and then do a forensic comparison

I must go and do some work!

Cheers

Shirley

[montbrehain]

I have scanned in Enlargements of all the men in the photograph. From the Original pic reversed (see post) I have matched names to photos. Dont take it as Gospel but there is a very good chance that the names are correct. "MO"