Andrew P Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 Nice enlargements of the photos Mo. In regards to the IT on the back of the photo do you think the initials could be LT. (Probably a longshot as it does look like an I) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nobelius Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 Vern , Thanks for your input. If you look close at the original post , you will see a photographer's studio stamp. It says MIDLAND JUNCTION STUDIO . Thats how I knew it was Blackboy (never having been to WA !!!) "MO" onya Mo! DOH! Missed that one. Sure it wasn't just a lucky guess? Despite the odds, and the doubting thomases, my money is still on "Charlton in the Middle" any takers????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest moyhu Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 Humour him Mo Please do a blow up of Lance Corporal Procter from the second picture and ask the experts if "We have a match" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest moyhu Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 Sorry. The forensic examination had already been suggested, so simply hear hear. The pictures disappeared. but when trying to get a printer friendly version they re-appear in greater clarity. If we do have any forensic experts, they might concentrate on what Andrew still believes to be the initials IT. To a non-expert it appears the numeral 11 has been overwritten. Perhaps he had intended 11 for 11 Battalion, then decided to identify his mates. As Nobelias suggested the second part could be a C, and the other sign (previously described as an arrow) was adapted as an attention seeker or underline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montbrehain Posted 3 May , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2007 Humour him Mo Please do a blow up of Lance Corporal Procter from the second picture and ask the experts if "We have a match" Already done it see post 47. And Nobelius, No It wasn't a lucky guess, I just know my AIF Stuff "MO" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 Well done people, shows what combined effort and knowledge can do. Cheers Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest moyhu Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 Godonya Mo Yep you know yer onions ok. I really meant to enlarge the picture of Prockter at the pyramids, our wires got crossed posting simultaneously. Look carefully at the right shoulder strap on the mystery man at Blackboy. He is still having trouble with the same strap in Egypt. Or do my eyes deceive me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 Just a small snippit of useless information - there is a small village in East Sussex called "Blackboys". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montbrehain Posted 3 May , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2007 Hopefully someone can get a better copy ? but in the meantime , what do we think , is this the same man ? "MO" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 For the benefit of those who may not have encountered a blackboy, (I don`t think it`s PC to call them that nowadays) this is one. The early settlers apparently mistook them for aboriginals when seen from a distance. Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nobelius Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 I dips me lid to you Mo. I have felt that the AIF has been my area of expertise too. I admit to not fully understanding the W A component of that Force, but the W does stand for wouldbee. I'm also a little bit miffed that no-one has accepted the challenge to prove that Andrew's IT is Not Charlton Prockter. People have dragged out the relevant attestation papers and know the height etc of several of his mates. By appending those statistics to the identified members of the Egypt picture and comparing them with your postcard it should be possible to pinpoint Charlton's height within an inch or two. Then there is the personal features, and even the unruly shoulder strap. It is a pity that he aquired the watch and chain hanging in his left hand breast pocket after leaving WA. Vern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nobelius Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 QUOTE (Phil_B @ May 3 2007, 10:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> For the benefit of those who may not have encountered a blackboy, (I don`t think it`s PC to call them that nowadays) this is one. The early settlers apparently mistook them for aboriginals when seen from a distance. Phil B And for the benefit of those who think all, including W, Australians are xenophobic , Xanthorrhoea is an Australian native plant genus that used to be called Blackboy or Grasstree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShirlD Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 Yup, that's him, but I have to say this is an emotional response, and not a scientific one Cheers Shirley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nobelius Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 Mo I was also typing away when you posted the comparative pictures so was unaware of them. If the two faces were given to me in a rouges gallery or line up, I'd say YES! Most men seemed to stick to their initial groups as long as possible, the old birds of a feather and devil you know syndromes Vern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frev Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 Hi all Tried scanning the photo from the book at a higher resolution - but all I got was the 'grid' interference coming up from behind the photo - which made it impossible to see. But have to say that I agree with our mate moyhu Nobelius that the mystery man & C.H. Prockter look very similar. Was hoping I could turn the initials/symbols into Y T for 'Yours Truly' - but nope - still stumped. Meanwhile - I've been gathering notes on Blackboy Hill for my records - so thought I'd share: Black Boy Hill Camp: [“Game to the Last” – J. Hurst] Outbreak of war, August 1914: P.4 “Black Boy Hill camp, in the foothills of the Darling Ranges outside Perth, was at that time being hastily established to house the hundreds of men enlisting in Western Australia.” “On Sunday, 16 August, (Louch) and 25 recruits left Albany on the night train to Perth. ………….. When the men found the apparent site of the camp, they discovered it to be simply virgin bush, but just as they were about to move on, Captain McLennan, the 11th Battalion Quartermaster, arrived with several horse-drawn General Service (G.S.) wagons laden with tents. Louch and his party set about establishing the camp.” P.5 “By the time Ferdinand George Medcalf, a 23-year-old surveyor from Cottesloe, arrived, Black Boy Hill was at least looking like a camp, but Medcalf was somewhat taken aback by the confusion and shortage of just about everything.” P.11 “Most of the training at Black Boy Hill was recruit training – close order drill, rifle exercises, and musketry. Apart from the specialists, such as the machine gun section, the only weapons were rifles and bayonets, so ‘compared with the task of the modern soldier, there was little to learn’, battle training being limited to fire and movement performed to stop watch and whistle-blast.” [“Bush Heroes” – S. Welborn] P.69 “Infantrymen ………………….. trained at Blackboy Hill camp, a rounded hill some acres in extent on the undulating, well drained ground of the Darling Range foothills about twenty-six kilometers from Perth.” P.72 “Once the men ‘knew which end of the rifle the bullet come out and the difference between pulling the trigger with one pull or two’ they were sent to Osborne Rifle Range, which was close to the sea and cleaner than Blackboy.” (should this be Swanbourne) [“A Fortunate Life” – A.B. Facey] P.302 “At the end of October our company was shifted to a camp near the Swanbourne Rifle Range to do our musketry training. ……………… We were camped at Swanbourne for about one week. ……………….’ (Facey trained with the original 11th – but didn’t sail with them as a he came down with measles. Sailed in Feb 1915 with the reinforcements.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest moyhu Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 At 1.30 am I finally got the message. The initials are J.C. Probably Just Chuck ie Charlton Took the first one 3 days to come back, this one 92 years. Creepy aint it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 3 May , 2007 Share Posted 3 May , 2007 And for the benefit of those who think all, including W, Australians are xenophobic , Aussies xenophobic? Perish the thought. I believe the Swanbourne range is still there attached to the Australian SAS barracks? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 Checked a few publications that had early photos of infantry at Blackboy Hill and they all had similar headgear on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 In the 2nd photo that Frev posted there was a picture of Pte James Kite. For those interested here is a photo of his last resting place at Fremantle Cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cford Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 Raw recruits at Blackboy are more usually pictured in the white floppy hats, and new chum pictures tend to be of awkward self conshus, holiday camp groupings. No-one likes a smart... but post war it is not! I T are probably the initials of the man sending home the picture. The recipient would recognise the sender, so no need to spell it out. That part has worried me too! The most common pictures from Blackboy seem to feature Simpson of later Donkey fame. Even there he seemed to act the fool being photographed with a skeleton wearing a white hat and a crazy three striped football jumper. There is a colour version and the stripes are green white and purple. Just shows you, ya can't win them all. Incidently if you are still not convinced about the IT part, perhaps Sherree could introduce you to her IT Expert, who knows what you have in common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunchy Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 QUOTE (Phil_B @ May 2 2007, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I paid a visit to the site of Blackboy Camp while in Perth and found a housing estate with a plaque in the middle. Do any locals know where the men would have done field training, trench digging etc? Phil B Phil, In 1914-18 Blackboy Hill was in the scrub off the Great Western Highway. They would have done their training in the local area and from what I understand the training was pretty much recruit training, before they were shipped overseas. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunchy Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 Mo, Interestingly, our family has a silk copy of one of the issues of the Camp Chronicle which was the newspaper produced in the Blackboy Hill camp for the troops. On the front page is an article about my grandmother being elected "The Soldier's Queen". She was very active in raising funds for the troops. A cousin has a suitcase of full of letters from troops at the front writing to thank her for the presents and gifts she had sent them. Met an old digger in the 1960's who thought very highly of her; he stated to us "I've always wanted to meet a relative of the Soldier's Queen, she saw us off at the wharf when we left, sent us presents when we were away and met us on the wharf when we returned". It was then that I realised the story actually meant something. One of the projects she organised was building a cottage for the first Western Australian wounded at Gallipoli to return to Perth. The really impressive thing was, it was erected in one day between dawn and sunset and the event was used as a fund raising activity. Again, my cousin has photos of them building it. I remember that in the 1960's the old digger still lived in the cottage. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 That part has worried me too! The most common pictures from Blackboy seem to feature Simpson of later Donkey fame. Even there he seemed to act the fool being photographed with a skeleton wearing a white hat and a crazy three striped football jumper. There is a colour version and the stripes are green white and purple. Just shows you, ya can't win them all. Fremantle to France by Ian Gill & Gallipoli by Wes Olsen have photos of the early 1914 11th Battalion recruits in the same type of headgear as Mo's photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 Mo, Interestingly, our family has a silk copy of one of the issues of the Camp Chronicle which was the newspaper produced in the Blackboy Hill camp for the troops. On the front page is an article about my grandmother being elected "The Soldier's Queen". She was very active in raising funds for the troops. A cousin has a suitcase of full of letters from troops at the front writing to thank her for the presents and gifts she had sent them. Met an old digger in the 1960's who thought very highly of her; he stated to us "I've always wanted to meet a relative of the Soldier's Queen, she saw us off at the wharf when we left, sent us presents when we were away and met us on the wharf when we returned". It was then that I realised the story actually meant something. One of the projects she organised was building a cottage for the first Western Australian wounded at Gallipoli to return to Perth. The really impressive thing was it erected in one day between dawn and sunset and the event was used as a fund raising activity. Again, my cousin has photos of them building it. I remember that in the 1960's the old digger still lived in the cottage. Regards Chris Hi Chris The Anzac Cottage in Mt Lawley is still there. There was an article about it in the papers around Anzac Day. In the 1980's the house was in a run down state and was taken over by a Vietnam Veterans group who restored it. Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunchy Posted 4 May , 2007 Share Posted 4 May , 2007 Andrew, Thank you for that information. Nice to know it's still in existance and still used by veterans. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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