Marco Posted 26 December , 2003 Share Posted 26 December , 2003 In a book it is claimed that the oldest Australian soldier to die was Pte. H. J. Gibbs, aged 64. A member of the 14th Battalion and that was killed "on the Somme" in 1918. I can not find an entry in the CWGC database that even resembles him even when playing with 'year' 'initials' etc. Has anyone ever heard of this man? TIA! Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 December , 2003 Share Posted 26 December , 2003 Hi Marco, The chap you are after appears to be 6733 Pte Henry James GIBB 14th Battalion. He is listed in the Roll of Honour in the 14th Battalion Unit history. He is named in the history on page 352 as being 63 years of age. On CWGC and the Australian War Memorial Roll of Honour he is listed as 45 years old. As follows:- GIBB, Pte. Henry James, 6733. 14th Bn. Australian Inf. Killed in action 7th June, 1918. Age 45. Son of James and Isabel Gibb; husband of A. A. M. Gibb, of Wahroonga, 184, Cavendish St., Stanmore, New South Wales. Born at Penshurst, Victoria, Australia. XI. D. 1. The AWM website is the best place to look for AIF men as the original cards completed by relatives after the war are listed. Most interestingly in the cards this chaps wife also lists him as 63 years of age. It states that he served in the Mashonaland War and in the Boer War. Worth a look- very interesting. PS. Red Cross Inquiry Files on the AWM website are also worth a look and often provide a lot more information (does not appear so in this case though). Regards Tim Dawe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 December , 2003 Share Posted 26 December , 2003 My mistake Marco. There is also a Red Cross File. It has six pages and refers to eyewitness accounts of his death. It appears he was killed by shrapnel whilst in a carrying party near Villers Bretonneux and was intitally buried in Lime Stone Quarry Cemetery. It looks like his son was in the 3rd Division Arty as mentioned in this Red Cross File. Regards Tim Dawe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 December , 2003 Share Posted 26 December , 2003 and....... Son was 19076 Gunner Harry McIntyre GIBB, 7th Field Artillery. Enlisted 04/11/1916, Returned to Australia 26/11/1918. In the Boer War Henry James GIBB served with the 2nd NSW Mounted Rifles reaching the rank of Sergeant, Regimental Number 1138. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 26 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2003 Many thanks Tim. Very usefull information. It never occured to me to drop the 's' in my search Amiens is my focus sector for 2004 so I should be able to revisit Villers-Bret. Curious to see what I will find there. The AWM says panel 72 (memorial) while the CWGC gives reference XI. D. 1 (grave) Anybody got any idea why he's listed as 45 while the form cleary states 63? Thanks again, Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 27 December , 2003 Share Posted 27 December , 2003 Hi Marco When Gibb joined up 45 was the age limit for enlistment in the AIF. Many older men put their age in the early 40's to be accepted. One soldier I've been researching did a similar thing. He lowered his age on enlistment and served at Gallipoli where he won the DCM only to be killed a year later in France. Upon his death the forms from his battalion showed him to be in his 40's, but his wife in filling out the next of kin forms showed his true age to be 54. Lowering the age seemed to be a common occurence which may be why there are discrepancies when it comes to the correct age of a soldier. Places like the AWM or CWGC would most likely rely on official documents when compiling information, which may be why the AWM & CWGC has him listed as 45 years old and not his true age of 64. Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 6 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 6 January , 2004 We recieved the usual reply from the CWGC: Before consideration can be given to amending our records of any of our casualties we need documentary evidence. We would, therefore, need you to provide us with a copy of the full birth certificate for Private Henry James Gibb, together with some additional documentary evidence connecting the birth certificate with the casualty - this could be a memorial card or obituary notice etc. The reason for the additional documentary evidence is that we must be sure that the birth certificate does refer to the casualty commemorated by the Commission. If you are able to provide a copy of Private Gibb's service record, this may of course also assist in our consideration to amend our records. Since these things are hard to get when you're in Holland, perhaps this is a mission for an Australian Baker pal? I suggest you reply on the forum to prevent hords of people going for his birth certificate! Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 The next of kin card that Tim mentioned that was filled out by Gibbs wife stating his age as 63 could be used as supporting evidence perhaps? As Gibbs was born in Victoria, are there any Baker's Pals that live in Melbourne or Victoria that have easy access to get a copy of this certificate? If not I'll try and get a copy from Western Australia, though it may take longer. Let us know. Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 8 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2004 Hello Andrew, Nok documents are not considered primary documents and therefore not accepted. Therefore neither the letters written by officers, the Bn history etc. Let's wait and see if there are volunteers. Australians have a reputation for (WW1) volunteering, so I'm not overly concerned Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 Likewise Marco. Birth certificates are a bit of a nightmare in different states if you can't get in yourself and order one in person. I'm in Queensland and Andrew's in Perth so its a bit of a hike. I'l also look into it and liaise with Andrew. TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 26 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 February , 2004 Chaps, Tim seems to be right. I recieved a reply from the AWM that a search in Victoria did not yield a birth certificate between 1850 and 1875. Anyone out there who's willing to put some personal time in? See http://www.xs4all.nl/~aur/Individuals/AncientsAIF.htm For his personal details etc. If all goes to plan I will visit his grave this weekend and pay my respects. TIA! Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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