German Army at Passchendaele

[Halder]

Another truly outstanding piece of scholarship and translation (especially with all that awful Fraktur to contend with) from Pal Jack. Personally, I found it to be even better than his Somme book. Unfortunately, the publishers stuck with the Fraktur-esque font which makes it rather hard to read (although it seemed easier than the Somme book). Worth every penny. Worth every penny, in fact, at twice the price, although I am a Germanophile.

I find it refreshing that Pen & Sword are publishing books from the other side of the hill; too many English-language books published feature a rather jaundiced view of both world wars, drawing on only American/British/Canadian memoirs and a scant number of enemy participants (usually the same old ones). The material is out there, and it's there in abundance, it's just scattered and printed in Gothic German invariably.

Roll on Jack's next book on the German Army in WW1... The March offensive perhaps? Last 100 days? March to the Marne?

[Mick D]

Have to agree with you in relation to the font used in both books, it's terrible.

but again, like you I am not put off the book(s) and await the next one

Mick D

[Borden Battery]

Can you list the complete title, author and publishing house?

I agree, just as Wellington wished to surmise what was on the other side of the hill, it would be very educational to learn the German perspective.

Regards

Borden Battery

[John S]

The German Army at Passchendaele by Jack Sheldon. Published by Pen and Sword

ISBN 184415564-1

Available from a major internet book seller Am***n at a reasonable price.

Regards

John

[squirrel]

Just ordered a copy and await the delivery.

[squirrel]

Arrived yesterday. Read the first 35 pages or so and have to agree that this is another superb book from Mr Sheldon.

The introductory passages to each section are informative, clear and concise; sketch maps show the locations of those describing events relevant to the actions and the personal accounts are detailed and at times very moving.

An excellent and, like the previous book on the Somme, well researched and written book.

A must for anybody who wants to know how things were from the German side.

[David Filsell]

I have just recieved a copy of the book for review for Stand To!. The research is most of course most impressive and like the Somme book, it contains a fascinating range of accounts prepared by an expert - it clearly an important addition to the literarature. But I would be interested to know if others share a feeling I have about both volumes.

Most British accounts of battl rarely indicate in much - or any detail - which units opposed them when they attacked - or were attacked. It seems to me that with so much available now on both the Somme and 3rd Ypres it would have been a huge help, and of considerable intererest, if Jack Sheldon had been able to indicate which British units (divisions, brigades or battalions) the "spokesmen" he deploys had faced. I know that one could research the informations and of course many now will. Am I being picky or is it, as I feel, an opportunity lost? It would be interesting to know Jack Sheldon's views.

Nevertheless let me underline this is a splendid and important book, and the question is honestly posed.

[Robert Dunlop]

Jack will no doubt answer for himself. I agree that it would be interesting to match up units. However, it is much much more important to make the German perspective accessible in English. The extra effort would be very distracting. I would rather see the next book in the 'series'.

Robert

[truthergw]

How much bigger would this have made the book? How much would have been added to the cost?

[Halder]

How much bigger would this have made the book? How much would have been added to the cost?

Well, from my own dealings with Pen & Sword, they really do not like books over 100,000 words (c.250 pages), so Jack did very, very well to persuade them not to chop his manuscript and keep the books at around the 400 page mark.

[Jack Sheldon]

David

Thanks for your observations. I always take on board any constructive comments as I strive to improve the product. What I would say by explanation is that it is my aim always to try to provide as much accurate information to the reader as I can without interrupting the flow of the narrative. If I am not sure I either caveat my comments or leave it out. When I wrote the Passchendaele book, I was fortunate to have Chris McCarthy's excellent 'Passchendaele Day by Day' book beside me. I regarded this as authoritative as far as the placement of British and Empire formations and units was concerned and, wherever possible I extracted identifications from it.

If you check the index you will see that I bring the opposing division into the story 25 times, the brigades from time to time and, occasionally, the unit. Now it would be nice to do better, but take it from me that it is usually exceedingly hard to be absolutely certain about who did what to whom at a particular time and place. For example: 1. Often the most destructive fire was brought down by a flanking unit, rather than the one directly attacked. Which is more important to the story? Are the surviving German accounts equally detailed and helpful (probably not)? 2. It is rare to be able to use really detailed marked German maps - too many went up in smoke and many of the histories either lack them, or they provide only a vague overview. Where good ones exist I make use of them - but it is patchy. The same applies to descriptions of the locations of companies within a battalion and, given the width of German company sub-sectors, it was usually Allied battalion versus company, brigade versus battalion and division versus regiment. 3. Attacking frontages were often very narrow and troops strayed off line. Again its is hard to be certain about exactly who clashed where in these circumstances and German eyewitnesses are rarely in a position to say much about identifications. One round Tommy's steel helmet looks much like another. I could go on, but you get the point.

Now it is certainly true that by dint of hard work I have managed on 'two-sided' battlefield tours to home in on the units involved in particular locations, but even this relies usually on some event such as the capture of a high ranking officer or a particular recognisable dugout. Otherwise accounts, though atmospheric, do not often permit exact placements on the ground to be made. In the Passchendaele book (p 288) you will see that the clash at the Turmhof/Graf House on 3 Nov 17 enabled me to pin down who was involved, but it is a rarity when this sort of things crops up

I do not think that adding more identifications would materially alter the length of the books, because my focus will remain the German side of the story. Their appearance in future titles will, however, once again be down to the availability of source material. If I can find something out, you can rely on seeing it.

Jack

[David Filsell]

Jack. Thank you for your courteous reacation to my comment. It was meant to be constructive and I am well aware of the problems which you face in your task. I think - as with your books - it is game, set and match to you. Thanks both for your reaction and for another welcome volume which I have added to my collection.

best regards

David

[Steven Broomfield]

Thought I'd add that I bought a copy to take on holiday, read it in about 4 days (it rained a lot!), and found it at least as good as the author's volume on the Somme. Excellent and an essential addition to the library.

[paul guthrie]

I cannot fathom how they could have used this font again. Somme was so good otherwise, obviously this is too but I'm not going to reward a publisher for doing this. I hope there is a paperback.

[Robert Dunlop]

It is a matter of taste I guess. I think the font is great, FWIIW. It adds to the authenticity of the book, making the text look somewhat like the original.

Robert

[truthergw]

This winter, I hope to do an in depth study of the battles at Ypres. To that end, I have been picking up books here and there since Spring. I have Jack's book and so I went to have a look at it. I agree it is different, Paul, but I found it quite readable. I also have Barton's book and had a peep when it arrived. I miss the CDs but the book itself looks good. Time will tell.

[Halder]

Here's my review from the September issue of Navy News:

REGULAR readers of our historical supplements will know that there are two sides to every battle.

Too often, English-speaking historians focus solely on the Allied role in victory between 1914 and 1918 at the expense of our foe, save for a few choice quotes from Ludendorff, Hindenburg and perhaps warrior poet Ernst Jünger.

Reluctance to look at the Great War from the German viewpoint is certainly not due to a lack of sources: although the official archives are incomplete (thanks, in part, to the RAF bombing campaign a generation later) German publishing houses churned out scores of erudite regimental histories inter alia in the 1920s. Unfortunately, they did so using Fraktur – the ‘Gothic German’ typescript beloved by printers until Hitler decided it was ‘too Jewish’ and banned it – which demands a trained eye to decipher it.

Fortunately, former soldier Jack Sheldon does not share the reticence of fellow historians to look at the Great War from the ‘other side of the hill’ – or their reluctance to tackle that hideous font.

Having given us the groundbreaking German Army on the Somme to put faces and names to the ‘Hun’ who inflicted the worst day on Britain in the history of her Army, the author has now turned his attention to the 1917 campaign with the same thoroughness.

When future historians come to write of Passchendaele one would hope that The German Army at Passchendaele (Pen & Sword, £25 ISBN 978-184-415-5644) would be a constant companion.

Passchendaele is the common English name for the battle. The Germans never used it; they preferred Ypern (German for Ypres) or, more usually, Flandernschlacht – the Flanders battle.

Using manifold first-hand accounts, the author shows that the Flandernkämpfer – the ‘Flanders warrior’, as Crown Prince Rupprecht of Bavaria, the senior German commander at Ypres, called him – bore the privations, misery and horrors of Passchendaele with the same bravery and stoicism as his opponent.

“They simply endured and went on enduring,” says the author.

One landser – the German counterpart to the British Tommy – in 13th Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment wrote after the onslaught on October 26, which the Royal Naval Division took part in:

“Dog-tired and exhausted, our little band, those who were still alive, stumbled along the road in the pale moonlight. Nobody spoke a single word.

“Deadly serious, the dark forms with the heavy helmets on their heads, headed back to their billets, sick to the heart with mourning for the fallen.”

General Hermann von Kuhl, Rupprecht’s Chief-of-Staff, called Third Ypres “the greatest martyrdom of the war”. His master hailed the battle as “a serious defeat for our opponents and a great victory for us”.

Tommy and Fritz alike probably cared little for such tubthumping, as a young German machine-gunner recalled.

“It was war and it had to be fought. We were not soldiers to be having a good time. There was not a man in our crater who need hang his head in shame.”

[Jack Sheldon]

Halder

Many thnks for this review and for taking the time to post it - much appreciated. I am pleased that you think that it will assist other researchers. That is one of the main aims of the entire multi-volume project. Because the next book covers Vimy, which was very much a Bavarian effort, I have already incorporated material from 48 very interesting original documents - with more to come. This should help bring more of the sources to the attention the anglophone audience. The font, about which others have commented, is outside my control. I did get the publishers to change from the 'Somme' one, but perhaps more could be done. We shall see.

Jack

[Dickie]

Jack, I got the impression Halder was referring to the German gothic font found in documents.

[sjustice]

Halder

The font, about which others have commented, is outside my control. I did get the publishers to change from the 'Somme' one, but perhaps more could be done. We shall see.

Jack

Jack, I hope you can. To make these works look like a novelty item doesn't favour them imho.

SMJ

[Jack Sheldon]

Dickie. You are right - he was, but I was harking back to previous comments. As I said, I shall see what I can do about it.

Jack

[Halder]

Pen and Sword can be dissuaded from using that pseudo Gothic font. I'm not sure if you have the same editor as I had (Susan Econicoff), but I asked her to inform the publishers to use a 'normal' font (from memory I have a feeling it was Sabon)... and they did. Hopefully they'll do the same with my Poland book Blitzkrieg Unleashed when it comes out next year, priced £25 (sorry, shameless plug!)

[Halder]

There's a review posted here on page 44.

[Bernard_Lewis]

I read this thread and thought 'I'll have to get that - the 38th Welsh was there on 31 July' ...and then, today, I came home and found that it had arrived courteousy of my book club. I'd forgotten that I'd ordered it...

It looks superb.

Bernard

[AndyHollinger]

I will have to get the book. ... but, on another note ... it's good to find you ALL here again and posting. I've missed you all this summer. (Paul, just finished an interesting article on our friend Gen Hood and his Kentucky campaign)