herbs1 Posted 26 August , 2007 Share Posted 26 August , 2007 Hi there, I am trying to do some family research for my father. His two uncles lived in Bundoran and he was told that they trained at Finner Camp. I have checked the Commonweath Graves list and I have found a Lcpl William John Campbell and a Lcpl A Campbell who could be my Great Uncles. The only details I have are their names - William and Albert. My father was told that they were killed at the Somme on 1/7 and that a letter was sent to The Great Northern Hotel , Bundoran where their father John Campbell was the Gardener, stating that they were dead presummed missing. How would I begin to find out if these two soldiers are brothers? I also notice that there are no details of DOB or next of kin. Why is that? We do not hold any DOB either. Could anyone please help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 26 August , 2007 Share Posted 26 August , 2007 The publication "Soldiers died in the Great War" records two William John Campbells killed on 1-7-1916 with the Royal Irish Rifles: Name: CAMPBELL, William John Regiment, Corps etc.: Royal Irish Rifles Battalion etc.: 12th Battalion. Last name: Campbell First name(s): William John Initials: W J Birthplace: Kells, Co. Antrim Enlisted: Larne, Co. Antrim Residence: Rank: RIFLEMAN Number: 17356 Date died: 01 July 1916 How died: Killed in action Theatre of war: France & Flanders Supplementary Notes: Name: CAMPBELL, William John Regiment, Corps etc.: Royal Irish Rifles Battalion etc.: 9th Battalion. Last name: Campbell First name(s): William John Initials: W J Birthplace: Cookstown, Co. Tyrone Enlisted: Belfast Residence: Rank: L/CPL Number: 16290 Date died: 01 July 1916 How died: Killed in action Theatre of war: France & Flanders Supplementary Notes: Do the details of either of these men "fit"? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 26 August , 2007 Share Posted 26 August , 2007 The A Campbell killed 1-7-1916, Name: CAMPBELL Initials: A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lance Corporal Regiment/Service: Royal Irish Rifles Unit Text: 13th Bn. Date of Death: 01/07/1916 Service No: 16321 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: II. D. 12. Cemetery: SUZANNE MILITARY CEMETERY No.3 was named Alexander, so not the other brother. Medal card of Campbell, Alexander Corps Regiment No Rank Royal Irish Rifles 13/16321 Private http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=2 Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbs1 Posted 26 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 26 August , 2007 Hi Steve Thanks for the reply. I will have to get my father to go to the public record office in Belfast and try and find out where his grandfather was married. I think that the 2nd William that was born in Cookstown could be him. Thanks Rosemary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbs1 Posted 26 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 26 August , 2007 Hi Steve I am now at a loss at trying to find out anything about Albert. I did go back onto the Commonwealth Graves list and did not fill in any date for death and went through all the Campbells. There was an Albert Seymour Campbell but I am not sure if this would be a regiment with soldiers from Finner Camp. Thanks again Rosemary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 26 August , 2007 Share Posted 26 August , 2007 Was Finner not an Inniskillings camp. Rifles in Newtownards/Randalstown. I would look for connections to 9th, 10th or 11th R. Innis. Fus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbs1 Posted 27 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 27 August , 2007 Thanks Desmond for that information. My only source is the commonwealth graves commission online and there are no records for any Campbell in that regiment that fit - I did not enter any death dates as the 1st July could be wrong. Are there any other sources that could check which regiments they were with? What about the museum at Newtownards? Does anyone know if they have lists of soldiers? Would it be worth my father going? My father has no other living relatives that he can ask. Thanks Rosemary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted 28 August , 2007 Share Posted 28 August , 2007 Hallo herbs 1 Strangely enough, as a young man, 1976 - 1997, I served in Finner Camp, Bundoran, County Donegal, Yes, its still on the go, and home of the 28th Infantry Battalion of the Irish Defense Forces. The Great Northern Hotel is still in exsistence to and being fully utilised as well. Finner Camp: http://wikimapia.org/3258252/Finner_Camp I wonder if any of the local papers would have carried any information regarding local caualties? There was the Donegal Democrat:http://www.medialive.ie/Press/Provincial/d_democrat.html Donegal News: http://www.nwipp-newspapers.com/DN/dncontacts.php Donegal Times:http://www.donegaltimes.com/2007/08_1/frontpage.html & mail@donegaltimes.com Another source would be to contact Donegal County Library: http://www.library.ie/public/donegal.shtml Connaught Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob elliott Posted 28 August , 2007 Share Posted 28 August , 2007 Herbs, There was a William Campbell who signed the Ulster Covenant and gave his address as the The Great Northern Hotel Bundoran. This was 1912. The only other Campbell to sign it in Bundoran was an Alice. Was this William's wife? No sign of John or Albert. Finner was the training camp for the 9th, 10th, and 11th Inniskillings and 14th Royal Irish Rifles from 1914 into early 1915. It was then the training camp for the 12th Reserve Btn Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers. The 11th was classed as the Donegal Battalion. I can find no Inniskilling that fits yet. So i'm wondering if the letter received was saying they were wounded not killed. The Irish Rifles thing may confuse the issue as i think the guy listed above in the 13th Btn was from County Down and not your man. The 1911 census for the Great Northern Hotel would give you a better idea of their names and dates of birth, which will assist in finding their deaths. I will have a search for them in other lists i have of Inniskillings. They are not on the Presbyterian roll of honour for Donegal so i wonder of they were Church of Ireland. In which case their name would be listed on the local church memorial. Don't know if Bundoran has a seperate war memorial. But the local papers of the time are the best. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob elliott Posted 28 August , 2007 Share Posted 28 August , 2007 Herbs, Just had a quick check on the medal index roll at the National Archives, can't see a suitable Albert. But with William there are about 8 with service numbers that would be ok to be Inniskillings in the 9th, 10th or 11th Battalions. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbs1 Posted 28 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 28 August , 2007 Hi folks Thank you all so much for giving me so much information to check up on. The William that signed the Ulster Covenant is my great Uncle as his father lived in the Bundoran hotel. They belonged to the Parish of Finner ,Church of Ireland as my great grandfather was baptized there in 1900. I went unto the ulster covenant online site before and could not source anything. I don't know of an Alice in the family. William had 1 sister called Elizabeth and 2 brothers - Albert and John (my granddad). William was never married. The letters sent to Bundoran stated that the brothers were missing presumed dead. We really have not got a clue which regiments they enlisted into. I think my father is sorry he did not ask more questions when he was younger. My folks live in Newry so it is quite a journey over to Bundoran to check the war memorial. I will send some emails to the links that you have given me. I would love to be able to find out which regiments they served with so I can make Remberance Sunday more special to my own boys. They only study World War II at school. Maybe Albert used his second name to enlist. We don't know this name but he would have used the Great Northern Hotel as his address. (I sent an email 1 1/2 years ago to the hotel requesting information but they never replied) I really appreciate all the help you all have given me. Rosemary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted 28 August , 2007 Share Posted 28 August , 2007 Hi folks My folks live in Newry so it is quite a journey over to Bundoran to check the war memorial. I will send some emails to the links that you have given me. I really appreciate all the help you all have given me. Rosemary Dear Rosemary, I was stationed in Finner Camp, County Donegal from 1976 - 1997, I cannot ever remember seeing a WW1 memorial in the town of Bundoran during that period, as I recall the town was a very popular with Northern Irish tourists, who, how can I say would have shown little respect for such a memorial in the town. I do not know if there was any tablet or scroll in the local Church of Ireland itself. Sorry I cannot offer any more help with regards this being here in Transylvania, Romania. The Great Northern Hotel, Bundoran. Connaught Stranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 28 August , 2007 Share Posted 28 August , 2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Harte It may be worthwhile contacing Paddy Harte TD who is very committed to WW1 commemoration for Donegal in particular and the rest of Ireland generally. He could have some good contacts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbs1 Posted 29 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 29 August , 2007 Hi Folks I have been busy sending emails to the newspapers, Donegal historic society, and Paddy Harte. Funny enough BBC NI are doing a set of programmes on PRONI this week and he was on the radio today talking about family trees - so my father informed me. I found William on the ulster covenant - great to see his own signature. My mum and dad are going to go up to Bundoran for a few days once I get a few replies to my emails. The central library at Letterkenny hold the census records for 1911 and church of Ireland births etc. I will write to the local rector and see if there is a roll of honour in the church they belonged to. I can remember seeing a 'card' when I was younger about one of the brothers missing presumed dead. I checked with my dad tonight and he thinks he may have that still amongst lots of photos (no names on the back). My dad also told me that his dad had one of the brother's certificates on the wall and it was a UVF one with one of the boys signatures and it said United we stand divided we fall. Don't know what happened to that. A bit dicey to have that on your wall in NI during the 60's and 70's. Does the mention of this certificate help in locating which regiment he would be with? I don't know where that certificate is now. Thanks Rosemary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 29 August , 2007 Share Posted 29 August , 2007 You can rule out 11th Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers (Donegal Fermanagh Volunteers) no Campbells KIA to match in their records. See if you can get someone to do a SDGW for Lance Corp. John Campbell 9th R Innis Fus. 14547 d. 16th August 1917. The story of being killed on 1st July may be a hurdle here. I have seen home family gravestones which note that a son died 1st July 1916 ... in fact he died on a different date. It just goes to show how far 1st July sunk into the Ulster mindset. No guarantee this is your man but worth probing. Do you know where the parents of the men lived by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 29 August , 2007 Share Posted 29 August , 2007 You can rule out 11th Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers (Donegal Fermanagh Volunteers) no Campbells KIA to match in their records. See if you can get someone to do a SDGW for Lance Corp. John Campbell 9th R Innis Fus. 14547 d. 16th August 1917. The story of being killed on 1st July may be a hurdle here. I have seen home family gravestones which note that a son died 1st July 1916 ... in fact he died on a different date. It just goes to show how far 1st July sunk into the Ulster mindset. No guarantee this is your man but worth probing. Do you know where the parents of the men lived by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbs1 Posted 29 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 29 August , 2007 Thanks Desmond The boys father was called John so maybe Albert was called John instead. Their parents lived in the Great Northern Hotel, Bundoran as he was the gardener there. The gardens are no longer there I have been told - now a golf course. The hotel would have relied alot on the produce from the gardens for food and table decorations. By the way what is a SDGW? Could anyone on this forum be able to do one for me? Rosemary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 29 August , 2007 Share Posted 29 August , 2007 SDGW - Soldiers Died Great War CD Rom You can disregard the soldier above - he was from Co. Antrim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob elliott Posted 31 August , 2007 Share Posted 31 August , 2007 Des, Have tried them all, William, Albert, John can't find any suitable. Thats why i suggested to Rosemary to get the Census to see where the boys were born and their ages. As you say the 'died at the Somme' thing can throw you completely off track. Don't know what its like in your family but in ours the boys never go by their first names. Seems to be first name after a grandfather or favourite uncle etc and the second [used] name as the one the parents wanted to use. As you know Des, we have an awful lot of James,William, Thomas, Samuel in Ulster names which make it difficult to follow. I think i am the 8th James Elliott. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob elliott Posted 31 August , 2007 Share Posted 31 August , 2007 Des, Have tried them all, William, Albert, John can't find any suitable. Thats why i suggested to Rosemary to get the Census to see where the boys were born and their ages. As you say the 'died at the Somme' thing can throw you completely off track. Don't know what its like in your family but in ours the boys never go by their first names. Seems to be first name after a grandfather or favourite uncle etc and the second [used] name as the one the parents wanted to use. As you know Des, we have an awful lot of James,William, Thomas, Samuel in Ulster names which make it difficult to follow. I think i am the 8th James Elliott. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbs1 Posted 4 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 4 September , 2007 Hi there Letterkenny Library have been in touch with me. The lady there has checked the census records and the whole family are listed for 1901 but not for 1911. That is strange since William Campbell Great Northern Hotel has signed the Ulster Covenant. I am waiting for a copy of the census to be sent to me so I will be able to verify names and ages. Mr Harte is going to give the Letterkenney Library a contact number for someone who should be able to find out about the two brothers tommorrow. It may be someone on this forum!! Rosemary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbs1 Posted 5 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 5 September , 2007 Hi Everyone I have now got a bit further in the research. I have been sent the census for Bundoran 1901. Albert isnt Albert but Alfred A./ born Co Donegal 1896 (+/- 6months) Wm John in entry so must have gone by the name John/ born Co Fermanagh 1895 (+/- 6 months) Is this enough information to find out regiments and location of death? Could Pte 3385 A Campbell Royal Irish Fusiliers who died on 30th April 1916 be one of the brothers? Is there a soldier on any of your records from an Irish regiment that goes by John or William that was born in Co Fermanagh? I have just found Alfred and my great grandparents on the Ulster Covenant. They were living in Lisnarick Irvinestown which is in the Co Fermanagh/ mid Tyrone parliamentary district. I think that the 2nd WJ Campbell of the Irish Rifles very early posting on this thread is my great Uncle and this is the family home as he was born in Co Tyrone. Rosemary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbs1 Posted 12 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 12 December , 2007 Hi Folks I thought I would update you all on the information I found out today from the museum at Enniskillen. Still nothing firm on William - still think he died at the Somme. Frederick lasted a month in the army but know nothing further on him. Alfred is a different matter. From below I can see that he survived WW1 - worked in the shipyard at the Clyde (I presume ) as a red oxide painter on the ships. then joined the pioneer corps in 1939. Where do I get more information now on him and what was the full title of the medal? Alfred is also the Alfred at Finner Camp mentioned in WJ Cannings book as these records show he was injured on St Paticks Day also. What does GSW mean? Regt: No 6974364, Rank: Pte Surname: Campbell Christian Name: Fred Regiment: Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers Attested: 01/03/1921 Age: 18 years 106 days Place: Omagh Occupation: Gardener Born: Bundoran, County Donegal Date of Marriage: Single Next of Kin: Brother - Robert Campbell, (My grandfather) Adavoyle Station, Ferrybridge PO Discharged: 28/03/1921 Discharge Location: Dublin Discharge Address: Thornhill House, Bundoran Regt No: 6974412 Rank: Pte Surname: Campbell Christian Name: Alfred Regiment: Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers Attested: 28/02/1921 Age: 28/02/1921 Place: Glasgow Occupation: Red Leader Born: Bundoran, Co Donegal Next of Kin: Mother - Elizabeth Campbell, Shane Lane, Bundoran Campaigns: France (1915-19) Medals: 1914/15 Star-BMW-VM Wounded: GSW (arm (17/03/1916) Discharged: 27/02/1925 Discharge Location: Hamilton Cause of Discharge: Termination of engagement Previous Service: R Innisk Fus - (21/09/1914 - 30/05/1919) (No 13434) Service History: Re-enlisted AMPC (30/10/1939) Old Army No: 13434 Rank: Pte Surname: Campbell Christian Name: A Regiment: Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers Campaigns: Great War Thanks Rosemary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffW Posted 12 December , 2007 Share Posted 12 December , 2007 GSW = Gun shot wound I would imagine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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