Yorts Posted 7 January , 2004 Share Posted 7 January , 2004 Further to a related topic, what Great War awards have citations available for them? If these are not at the PRO then where are they? I am aware of the following: All citations for the VC, and citations for the DSO, DSC, DFC, DCM, MC are available at the PRO for British soldiers except where the award was made in the New Years Honours list or on the King's Brithday. AFC and DFM are also in the gazette but not all awards get citations. Only early MMs to nurses have citations - the vast majority do not. DSMs sometimes have short entries. MIDs do not have citations, except in a tiny tiny number of recommendations where a higher award was recommended but the recipient died and thus could not get it postumously. All citations for Canada (including MMs) are at the National Archives, and the Australian War memorial does the same for downunder. Tank Corps MMs and other awards are all recorded and available. I have details on almost all Great War RM awards based on my own research, but even so MMs still do not have citations except from a private source. Does anyone know of any other sources specific to a unit? Rgds, Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 7 January , 2004 Share Posted 7 January , 2004 Alex, The 25th Division History is particularly good in detailing awards and citations and is quite comprehensive in this respect. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 7 January , 2004 Share Posted 7 January , 2004 I have an idea that many 55 Div citations survive somehwere - but I can't give chapter and verse. Doubtless someone else can. Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stoner Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 One thing has always puzzled me with the award of MMs and their lack of citations in the British Army For any person to have recieved a medal, somebody must have sat down and written a recommendation, this recomendation must have been read by an individual or board and a verdict (?) passed, No award, MiD, MM, DCM, VC and so on. Knowing the Army's prerequisites with paperwork (if it is black on white......file it!), whatever happened to all of the original recomendations, especially if they were to go further and a medal awarded? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorts Posted 8 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2004 All the recommendations for the MM were destroyed. I've heard varying versions of when, one that the 1940 bombing got them, and the other's that either pre or post war the army decided it didn't want them takign up room and binned them. They felt more comfortable about this as supposedly all recipients had been given a copy of their citation and told it was the only one in existence so they'd better keep it. Rgds, AJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 All citations for the VC, and citations for the DSO, DSC, DFC, DCM, MC are available at the PRO for British soldiers except where the award was made in the New Years Honours list or on the King's Brithday. . . . . Only early MMs to nurses have citations Alex: While what you say is generally correct, it is not correct in the details. There are quite a number of DSO and MC awards, other than New Years and Birthday honors that do not have citations, some examples are those in the London Gazette lists of 2 Feb 1916 and 11 Apr 1918. Besides the early Nurse MM citations there are also some MM citations to soldiers in the London Gazettes in 1920 and 1921, especially for Russia and some other theaters outside of France. Numerous Royal Artillery unit histories have citations for the MM, DSO and MC that are not in the London Gazette. Some school, college and university Rolls of Service and Rolls of Honour for the Great War also contain citations for awards that were not published in the London Gazette. So far, using the sources mentioned above, I have found citations for almost 500 MMs, MCs and DSOs to gunners that were not published in the London Gazette. Admittedly it takes quite some time to dig out this information. Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 I have an idea that many 55 Div citations survive somehwere - but I can't give chapter and verse. Doubtless someone else can. Jock: I think it is the Manchester Library, but I am not sure. Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simon Bull Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 There is a published book called something like "Tank Corps Honours and Awards" by Maurice, which lists all Tank Corps medal citations. If anyone wants a citation form it I have it and can look them up. Simon Bull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorts Posted 8 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2004 There is a published book called something like "Tank Corps Honours and Awards" by Maurice, which lists all Tank Corps medal citations. If anyone wants a citation form it I have it and can look them up. Simon, Could you see in Major W.S. Poe DSO RMA is listed, his DSO was for service with the 9th Bn. Tank Corps according to his gallantry index card at the PRO. LG 3/6/18 'In recognition of services in the prosecution of the war' - do you have any more details. T/Capt. DL Robinson RMA should also be listed (DSO LG 15/10/18). I have the citation but is there any details, e.g. exact unit? Regards, Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 All citations for Canada (including MMs) are at the National Archives, You are mostly correct here, I have largely been very impressed as to how many do, but it sadly is not 100%. It becomes a bit of a lottery. However, when you do hit an MM citation they tend to be quite graphic! All Can. MM's have a 'citation card' with LG dates and authority signatures etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 All citations for Canada (including MMs) are at the National Archives, You are mostly correct here, I have largely been very impressed as to how many do, but it sadly is not 100%. It becomes a bit of a lottery. Certainly must be a lottery as, when I contacted Ottawa a few months back, they told me they hold no details of MM citations. Very nice stack of papers from my man's personnel file though- cost me about £7. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 Following up on David's comments, I have two MM groups to Canadian Black Watch battalions, and only one has a citation. 24534 Pte.W.J.Stonard, 13th Bn simply has a notation indicating the award of the MM in 1st Division Order 5647 and the London Gazette of 3 July,1919. He was wounded at Festubert in 1915 and again at Canal du Nord late in the war, and died in 1920. 418736 Sgt.W.A.Brewer, 42nd Bn., has the following citation: "On April 9th, 1917 during the attack on VIMY RIDGE, this NCO displayed conspicuous skill and courage in directing the capture of enemy machine gun and crew, and later by assisting in the reorganization of his company, all of the officers having been wounded. 18 months service." London Gazette 9 July,1917.; died in 1962. I always can hope that eventually something might turn up on Stonard but nothing yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 when I contacted Ottawa a few months back, they told me they hold no details of MM citations. John, The person who gave you that information is not correct! You need to be in touch with the 'Honours & Awards Section' of the National Archives. Failing that there is a well known and very reasonable researcher I (and many other Pals) use; I would be happy to give you his information if you wished. Keep searching...your citation may still be out there David (PS: Terry, nice MM for VIMY. I have one too, to the 4th CMR) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 Can anybody let me know how I actually can find if my mans MM citation survives in Canada. I have the MM to 761158 Cpl H White 102nd Btn CEF, KIA during the Paeschendaele fighting. Perhaps its just me but having looked on the Canadian records site I dont seem to know who I can contact in order to obtain these details.HELP!!! Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 There is a book called "British Gallantry Awards The Sherwood Foresters" which contain a number of WW1 citations for MMs (including my Grandad's). This book was recently remaindered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simon Bull Posted 10 January , 2004 Share Posted 10 January , 2004 Alex, I regret to say that this is one of the very few Tank Corps Awards that the book does not give details of. Page 5 of the book, under the heading "June 1918" lists a number of officers including "Major W. S. Poe, 9th Tank Battalion DSO" who received "Honours, Other Than Immediate Awards". Sadly, in relation to these non-immediate awards no citation is given. This is unfortunate for people such as yourself trying to trace the citation as there are literally hundreds of other Tank Corps awards in the book where the citation is given. Sorry not to be of assistance. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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