Trench Mortar Battery

[Bob Foster]

I am researching a soldier who died whilst serving in

Y20th Trench Mortar Battery RFA. Is it possible to find out where he served i.e. is there a war diary - i have not found one yet at the PRO. Or were they attached to

specific battalions or divisions ?

[Greenwoodman]

Bob

Welcome to the forum.

Y20th TMB was one of the medium trench mortar batteries with the 20th (Light) Division. Its war diary should be somewhere within the 20th Division's War Diary (ie it may not be held as a separate file within the NA-PRO, but as part of the War Diaries associated with the Division).

Becke's Order of Battle of Divisions records that the TMBs were formed by 24/05/16. First engagement after that was the Battle of Mount Sorrel (2-13/06/16) then the Battles of the Somme which the Division entered on 21/08/16 at Delville Wood. In 1917 the Division was engaged during the retreat to the Hindenburg Line, Battles of Ypres, and Battle of Cambrai. In 1918 the March Retreat, then the Advance to Victory.

From my research so far, it seems that TMBs were manned from within the Division, so it may well be that your man served first as an infantryman in the division before transferring to the TMB.

May we have details of your man? The resources of the Forum could well swing into action after that, and you may glean some more info on your man.

[Robert Dunlop]

Its war diary should be somewhere within the 20th Division's War Diary (ie it may not be held as a separate file within the NA-PRO, but as part of the War Diaries associated with the Division).

'The History of the Twentieth (Light) Division' has been republished by Naval and Military Press. There are several mentions of the trench mortar batteries. Y/20 was created on 3 March 1916. In June that year, Capt Traill of Y/20 won the MC for his work in handling the battery against a German attack near Hooges. In August, they were involved in supporting attacks on the Somme.

X, Y and Z/20 batteries were re-organised into X and Y/20 batteries in Feb 1918.

There is mention of a section of trench mortar men accompanying an infantry raid near Lens later in 1918. They were responsible for tossing Stokes mortar bombs into dugouts. Bearing in mind these bombs contained more HE than 18pdr shells, they wouldn't half have made a mess! It does not mention which battery the men came from.

Just some tasters from what is a very readable history.

[Bob Foster]

Wow - thanks for the incredibly swift replies.

The man I am researching is 213195 Gunner Rowland Richardson. He died on 9th July 1917 and is buried at Canada Farm Cemetary which I visited earlier this year and is north of Ypres.

[Robert Dunlop]

The man I am researching is 213195 Gunner Rowland Richardson. He died on 9th July 1917

There is no mention of Gunner Richardson by name in the 20th Division history. Unfortunately, there is no Roll of Honour.

On the date that you mention, the division was out of the line being prepared for Third Ypres. Until the 29th June, they had been involved in 'active trench warfare' near Lagnicourt and Bullecourt. During this time, the artillery took a pasting from the Germans, with several guns being damaged or put out of action. The tench mortar batteries may also have been targeted or otherwise hit during this time. Thus, Gunner Richardson may have been injured then and died of wounds later.

Do you have any more details?

[Annette Burgoyne]

The 20th Divisons guns had moved into the Salient and took up positions covering the 38th Div. during the first fortnight of July 1917.

Annette

[Robert Dunlop]

Yes, Annette. This seemed to refer to the divisional artillery. I did not see anything related to the trench mortar batteries. What was your impression?

[Geoff Parker]

After late 1916/ear 1917 the larger calibre of trench mortars came under RA

command. The 4inch Stokes were under command of the Chemical troops while

the 3inch stokes remained with the infantry.

Geoff

[Annette Burgoyne]

Hi Robert

You are right it does only mention the artillery, and I am not sure if Y20 TMB had the 3inch stokes or the bigger mortars. The 6th K.S.L.I. mention the 60th TMB supporting them in attacks, so X, Y and Z/20 batteries could be the bigger mortars ?

Bob, another idea that came to me was that Gunner Rowland Richardson may have been in the forward area doing a reconnoiter of positions that they would be taking over ?

Annette

[Robert Dunlop]

I am not sure if Y20 TMB had the 3inch stokes or the bigger mortars. The 6th K.S.L.I. mention the 60th TMB supporting them in attacks, so X, Y and Z/20 batteries could be the bigger mortars ?

Bob, another idea that came to me was that Gunner Rowland Richardson may have been in the forward area doing a reconnoiter of positions that they would be taking over ?

Annette

X, Y and Z/20 would had been medium (4") trench mortars (p. 43). They would have been part of the trench mortar brigade, divisional artillery. This fits with the reduction to two batteries in 1918, with an exchange of some trench mortars for the 6" Newton mortar. What I don't know is whether they would have accompanied the guns when the divisional artillery moved into the line. In the limited reading I have done about artillery units, I cannot recall mention of TMBs moving with the guns but I just don't know. It would be very interesting if someone could answer this. If the TMBs did accompany the guns, then your premise could well fit, including the possibility that the whole battery was in the line and he happened to be killed while there.

[Adam Harland]

Unlike Divisional Artillery, which quite often remained in the line, or served to support other Divisions, the TMBs tended to remain with the Division, and were staffed from the divisional Battalions and the Artillery ( both RFA and RGA if those listed on the 32nd Div plaque in York Minster are anything to go by.) Originally the heavies were for the gunners and the mediums for the infantry. For a major assault they were used to support non divisional troops.

It is rare to find a TMB war diary of any length ( I have tried researching g/pa across 3 divisions...and he was an officer and still not a mention.) Often they are no more than a list a shells fired where and for what purpose eg wire cutting.If there is a WD it will be somewhere within the 20th Div papers. More likely you will only find fleeting references to the TMBs in other parts of the records ( ie raid reports, battle reports etc.

As far as I can make out from these records, it was not unusual for the TMB to move to a new sector and take over the existing mortars, etc, rather than move with their guns all the time. I had always thought that the gunners were rather against that sort of thing, and revered their guns, so no doubt the PBI were the start of that habit. There were specialist gun pits and bomb stores ( proximity to which, and the associated retaliation, being a major cause of unpopularity with the infantry) which were taken over, and these were often in the 2nd or third line.

I am trying to recall the favoured bomb combination from the 15th Div raiders, but they regularly raided with a combination of petrol and stokes bombs.. and I believe this was the method for dealing with dugouts when they were referred to as 'bombed' in raid reports, rather than merely with a Mills bomb or two.

'Artillery and Trench Mortar Memories' is the only book I have found specifically on this subject, being based around the 32nd Div TMBs, but it is a collection of diaries rather than a technical work ( also scarce).

Your man could also have been killed in the front line as a member of a carrying party, particularly in the build up to a major assault.

Good luck

Adam