JONDI Posted 5 September , 2007 Share Posted 5 September , 2007 Hi everyone I wonder if anyone can tell me what the Royal Field Artillery "A" Battery, 233rd Brigade were doing around the end of April 1917. I've been doing a bit of research and found that a family relation (born in Hull, East Yorkshire in 1885) was with the Artillery when he died on 25th April 1917. The cause of death states that he died of wounds. He was Gunner Edwin Ambrose Gibbins, service number 765504. According to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission he is in Bailleul Road East Cemetery, St. Laurent-Blangy in France. I would love to know what action the Artillery were doing and where if thats at all possible. Looking forward to any help. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 5 September , 2007 Share Posted 5 September , 2007 John, 233 Bde RFA was a Howitzer Bde that went to France in Mar 1915 as 1/4 North Midland. (45 Div) It was transformed in May 1916 into three 4 gun 13 pounder Batteries; at the same time however, A/233 Bde became D/230 Bde, and D/230 Bde became A/233 Bde. So depending on your ancestors date of entry, he may have gone out with 230 Brigade, originally the 1/1 north Midland Brigade. (arrived France 6/3/1915). Diaries exist for 230 at ref: WO95/2673, and for 233 at WO95/2674. Rgds Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JONDI Posted 5 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 5 September , 2007 Hi Paul Many thanks for that information regarding the R.F.A. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 5 September , 2007 Share Posted 5 September , 2007 Hello John A Battery 233 Bde RFA (the former D Battery 230 Bde) was actually broken up in August 1916 with the rest of its brigade. It was used to make A and B Batteries 230 Bde up from four guns to six. They were all armed with 18-pounder guns. The original A Batt 233 Bde, which became D Batt 230 Bde, was equipped with 4.5-inch howitzers. All of these batteries belonged to 46 (North Midland) Division, which at the end of April 1917 was involved in an attack on la Coulotte, a village north of Vimy Ridge on the road to Lens. It was in I Corps, First Army. Unfortunately, neither the main British Official History (1917 volume I) nor Farndale's History of the RA (Western Front) mentions the artillery activities of 46 Div or any of its batteries during the relevant time. As well as the diaries already mentioned, WO95/2668 contains the diary of the division's Commander RA for the relevant period. Sorry I can't be more positive. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 5 September , 2007 Share Posted 5 September , 2007 Such in depth knowledge Ron, belies a new member with under 20 posts. I have as a supplement to my database several excellent reference articles on artillery brigades/ heavy brigades that are written by a certain Ron Clifton on behalf of the WFA. Would this possibly be your good self, and if so may I take this opportunity to welcome you to the forum where your expertise will be much appreciated? Rgds Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 5 September , 2007 Share Posted 5 September , 2007 I may be wrong ( I usually am) but looking at the records nearest to Gunner Gibbins I would say that he was in the 2nd Northumbrian Bde. ( and as SN list from Roop & Dick Flory ) and could be "A" Battery 223 Bde. Is it possible that there could be a typo error here? I suppose what I am asking is did the TA Bde.s go to different units? Gunner 2247 Johnson, John enlisted 6 May 1915 if it's of interest. Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoplophile Posted 6 September , 2007 Share Posted 6 September , 2007 In May of 1916, when the Territorial Force field artillery brigades serving on the Western Front got their 'long' numbers, the 2nd Northumbrian Brigade became the 251st (2nd Northumbrian) Brigade. The 233rd Brigade was the old 4th Midland Brigade, of the 46th (North Midland) Division. As a rule, Territorial Force field artillery brigades sent to the Western Front during the first 18 months or so of the war tended to stay with their parent divisions. The only exception I can think of is the divisional artillery of the 55th (West Lancashire) division, which spent some time with the 2nd Canadian Division. Towards the end of 1916, the Territorial Force field artillery brigades sufferred the same fate as most of the other field artillery brigades on the Western Front. One in every three brigades was broken up in order to convert the four-piece batteries of the surviving brigades into six-piece units. Soon thereafter, one of the brigades in each division that still had three brigades was removed from that division and converted into an army field artillery brigade. Another way of saying this is: of the four brigades in each division, two remained with that division, one was broken up in order to reinforce those two brigades and one was detached from the division for the sake of the army field artillery. Of the latter brigades, one in three was broken up in order to reinforce the surviving army field artillery brigades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 6 September , 2007 Share Posted 6 September , 2007 Such in depth knowledge Ron, belies a new member with under 20 posts. I have as a supplement to my database several excellent reference articles on artillery brigades/ heavy brigades that are written by a certain Ron Clifton on behalf of the WFA. Would this possibly be your good self, and if so may I take this opportunity to welcome you to the forum where your expertise will be much appreciated? Rgds Paul Hello ororkep Guilty as charged! But it's not so much in-depth knowledge as having access to the right reference books: in this case, Becke's Orders of Battle and Farndale's History of the RA. I've recently been working in more detail on the changes in RFA establishments, and the battery/bridge re-allocations, so I know what a minefield it is. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JONDI Posted 6 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 6 September , 2007 Hi everyone I've just got home from work and come on the computer to see if I had any messages, and I had loads waiting for me with masses of information. So a big thank you to everyone who sent me info regarding the R.F.A. you have all been fantastic and its very much appreciated. Thank you John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 8 September , 2007 Share Posted 8 September , 2007 I have been wondering whether to post again on this thread, especially as John is happy with his replies, but I still have this nagging doubt. If I attach two gunners records perhaps someone will see why and give their opinion. They are from the records of 765488 Burnham, Edward and 765497 Johnson, John, both of the 2nd Northumbrian Brigade TA. The main question is could the CWGC have made a mistake? If so how does one find out? If the war diaries are none existent or if they are available it is unlikely to show ORs how does one find which Bde. a gunner was with. Can one search the SDGW for gunners by Brigade in a particular cemetary? Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 8 September , 2007 Share Posted 8 September , 2007 Certainly there are also several other gunners burried during the same month as Gnr Gibbins in the same garveyard, both attributed to 223 Bty (one for A/223). There are no others for 233 bty. Kevin may be on to something. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 9 September , 2007 Share Posted 9 September , 2007 Hello again John 316 and 318 Bdes RFA were formed for 63 (2/Northumbrian) Division, a second-line TF division which was broken up in mid-1916, the artillery being transferred to the Royal Naval Division, which also took on the number 63.. 318 Bde was re-numbered 223 and there were some battery transfers in August 1916: half of A/316 went to make A/233 up from four 18-pounders to six. All this ties up exactly with your man's record. At the end of April 1917 the RN Division were heavily involved in the attack on Gavrelle, on the Arras-Douai road. This is a well-documented action and I am sure that there will be other threads on the Forum about it. Good luck! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JONDI Posted 9 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 9 September , 2007 Hello again John 316 and 318 Bdes RFA were formed for 63 (2/Northumbrian) Division, a second-line TF division which was broken up in mid-1916, the artillery being transferred to the Royal Naval Division, which also took on the number 63.. 318 Bde was re-numbered 223 and there were some battery transfers in August 1916: half of A/316 went to make A/233 up from four 18-pounders to six. All this ties up exactly with your man's record. At the end of April 1917 the RN Division were heavily involved in the attack on Gavrelle, on the Arras-Douai road. This is a well-documented action and I am sure that there will be other threads on the Forum about it. Good luck! Ron Hi Ron Many thanks for your continued help regarding the Royal Field Artillery. It's very much appreciated all the information you have passed on to me the past few days Best Wishes John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgibbins Posted 21 February , 2017 Share Posted 21 February , 2017 (edited) I appreciate that nearly 10 years have passed since this topic was first posted, but just in case there are other researchers asking about Edwin, I can confirm that he was indeed with "A" Battery 223rd Brigade RFA at the time of his death. On 30th/31st August 1916 he was transferred from the right section of "A" Battery 316th Brigade to "A" Battery 223rd Brigade. His name and service number appears in the 316th war diary entry for that date. CWGC have acknowledged the error and amended their website entry. He was wounded on 22nd April 1917, the day before the attack on Gavrelle, probably with 2/Lt Hilyard of "A" Battery, who is mentioned in 223rd's war diary. Paul Gibbins Edited 26 February , 2017 by pgibbins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 5 January , 2022 Share Posted 5 January , 2022 (edited) 2259 Gibbins is recorded here together with someone I am trying to research 2252 gnr. Lamb although his VM is recorded as 2252 sgt.Lamb , also a Mentioned in Despatches 4/7/1919 To 765500 sgt. Fred Lamb 2/2 northumbrian brigade attached to 223 brigade. Have searched through the diary, but cannot find a reason for the mention. Could the reason just be the promotion from gnr. to sgt.? 2259 Gibbins mentioned Above. He went to A/223 from A/316 Edited 5 January , 2022 by Lammy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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